1 00:00:06,349 --> 00:00:04,370 hello and welcome to the show I'm Martin 2 00:00:08,750 --> 00:00:06,359 Willis your host and we have a great one 3 00:00:12,499 --> 00:00:08,760 tonight we have a we have a Canada show 4 00:00:14,690 --> 00:00:12,509 a truce with Canada so we have Jordan 5 00:00:17,779 --> 00:00:14,700 Bonaparte is filling in for Alejandro 6 00:00:19,429 --> 00:00:17,789 Rojas who actually became ill today and 7 00:00:22,220 --> 00:00:19,439 he wrote me just a few minutes ago 8 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:22,230 saying he can't make the show so I have 9 00:00:29,509 --> 00:00:24,330 Jordan Bonaparte from Canada our guest 10 00:00:31,490 --> 00:00:29,519 also MJ Baniyas is also from Canada so 11 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:31,500 that will call this the Canadian truce 12 00:00:37,479 --> 00:00:34,410 show and I want to thank everyone that 13 00:00:42,979 --> 00:00:37,489 supports the show we are over on kgr a 14 00:00:44,959 --> 00:00:42,989 radio and we are also on YouTube and we 15 00:00:47,900 --> 00:00:44,969 are live on our website which is podcast 16 00:00:49,639 --> 00:00:47,910 UFO calm and anyone wants to go check 17 00:00:51,799 --> 00:00:49,649 that out there are some blogs over there 18 00:00:54,799 --> 00:00:51,809 we're looking for a blog writer if 19 00:00:57,889 --> 00:00:54,809 anyone's interested in doing that and so 20 00:00:59,389 --> 00:00:57,899 check out podcast UFO comm also there's 21 00:01:01,760 --> 00:00:59,399 a mailing list there so you can see what 22 00:01:04,039 --> 00:01:01,770 our upcoming guest is we do not abuse 23 00:01:06,859 --> 00:01:04,049 the mailing list we only send out once a 24 00:01:08,929 --> 00:01:06,869 week with the upcoming guests and also 25 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:08,939 the times that the show is live and 26 00:01:14,990 --> 00:01:12,090 speaking of that next week my guest 27 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:15,000 should be if his car doesn't break down 28 00:01:19,730 --> 00:01:18,450 is Chris O'Brien he's going to be 29 00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:19,740 heading out it's gonna stay at my guest 30 00:01:25,460 --> 00:01:22,170 house we're gonna do a in studio show 31 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:25,470 here next week so that should be fun 32 00:01:31,969 --> 00:01:28,290 Chris is a lot of fun and our guest 33 00:01:33,350 --> 00:01:31,979 tonight is MJ bonus and we're going to 34 00:01:35,539 --> 00:01:33,360 talk a little bit more about him when we 35 00:01:37,460 --> 00:01:35,549 get ready for now we're gonna bring in 36 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:37,470 well first of all I do want to say I 37 00:01:41,090 --> 00:01:38,850 want to thank everyone that supports 38 00:01:44,469 --> 00:01:41,100 this show anyone can do that and that 39 00:01:47,060 --> 00:01:44,479 information is on podcast UFO calm and 40 00:01:50,300 --> 00:01:47,070 Jordan welcome to the show thanks so 41 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:50,310 much for filling in when duty calls 42 00:01:53,450 --> 00:01:51,930 Martin I'm here for you but I know this 43 00:01:55,130 --> 00:01:53,460 like a Canadian minute you call it a 44 00:01:56,450 --> 00:01:55,140 Canadian truce but it's me and MJ 45 00:01:59,630 --> 00:01:56,460 against you so there's more like a take 46 00:02:01,490 --> 00:01:59,640 over oh no I couldn't turn that 47 00:02:05,420 --> 00:02:01,500 opportunity down yeah yeah well we'll 48 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:05,430 talk about tariffs when MJ gets on but 49 00:02:09,559 --> 00:02:07,290 anyway thanks so much for filling in and 50 00:02:12,740 --> 00:02:09,569 I know this is last-minute did you get a 51 00:02:13,610 --> 00:02:12,750 chance to check out any UFO news to 52 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:13,620 bring us 53 00:02:19,729 --> 00:02:16,730 yeah well really for what I see 54 00:02:22,580 --> 00:02:19,739 discussed online in terms of UFO news 55 00:02:24,350 --> 00:02:22,590 for the last few days maybe this isn't a 56 00:02:26,930 --> 00:02:24,360 UFO story and it's a little political 57 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:26,940 but there's been a lot of talk among UFO 58 00:02:31,030 --> 00:02:28,290 circles about Trump's recent 59 00:02:34,039 --> 00:02:31,040 announcement to form the space force 60 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:34,049 I've seen of course conspiracy theories 61 00:02:40,839 --> 00:02:37,890 that his attention to the to the space 62 00:02:43,670 --> 00:02:40,849 to the space force may have 63 00:02:46,910 --> 00:02:43,680 undercurrents within the UFO culture but 64 00:02:49,069 --> 00:02:46,920 I don't know I would love to sit down 65 00:02:51,170 --> 00:02:49,079 and talk to him about about his thoughts 66 00:02:52,789 --> 00:02:51,180 on this but there's something going on 67 00:02:56,780 --> 00:02:52,799 up there that has him concerned it seems 68 00:02:59,150 --> 00:02:56,790 well yes I saw when he was doing this a 69 00:03:01,400 --> 00:02:59,160 little bit about it that it's a he wants 70 00:03:04,580 --> 00:03:01,410 it as a part of the armed forces 71 00:03:07,849 --> 00:03:04,590 actually which is pretty interesting and 72 00:03:11,569 --> 00:03:07,859 I know that nothing can be done without 73 00:03:14,059 --> 00:03:11,579 congressional approval but it still is 74 00:03:17,839 --> 00:03:14,069 interesting that he's he actually has 75 00:03:19,220 --> 00:03:17,849 interests in space so and you know a 76 00:03:20,839 --> 00:03:19,230 little while ago there was an 77 00:03:23,300 --> 00:03:20,849 announcement that we can go back to the 78 00:03:26,330 --> 00:03:23,310 moon which i think is awesome I think 79 00:03:28,729 --> 00:03:26,340 that would be great to get back there 80 00:03:31,490 --> 00:03:28,739 and see what's happened in the so many 81 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:31,500 years ago I think it was 1972 or 73 is 82 00:03:36,710 --> 00:03:35,010 the last yeah ruin the moon so yeah his 83 00:03:38,780 --> 00:03:36,720 announcement was to make it the sixth 84 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:38,790 division of the Department of National 85 00:03:44,449 --> 00:03:41,970 Defense I think I love the idea of money 86 00:03:46,460 --> 00:03:44,459 and attention and science being directed 87 00:03:49,220 --> 00:03:46,470 towards the sky but I think I would 88 00:03:51,740 --> 00:03:49,230 rather it be spent in a different way 89 00:03:53,659 --> 00:03:51,750 than you know defense and military I 90 00:03:56,809 --> 00:03:53,669 wish it was more just towards 91 00:03:59,000 --> 00:03:56,819 exploration but I don't know what his 92 00:04:02,449 --> 00:03:59,010 what his plans are or what his concerns 93 00:04:05,390 --> 00:04:02,459 are regarding our safety and in the sky 94 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:05,400 but I guess any any money spent towards 95 00:04:09,409 --> 00:04:07,410 that well I shouldn't say that I would 96 00:04:11,839 --> 00:04:09,419 like to say any money spent towards that 97 00:04:14,270 --> 00:04:11,849 means is a is a good thing for those of 98 00:04:15,860 --> 00:04:14,280 us who are interested in this but that 99 00:04:19,039 --> 00:04:15,870 said there's probably some nasty things 100 00:04:21,620 --> 00:04:19,049 you could do by building a space force 101 00:04:24,050 --> 00:04:21,630 or arming a space force well another 102 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:24,060 thing there's like the moon treaty or 103 00:04:26,990 --> 00:04:26,130 something like that ik I know I looked 104 00:04:29,930 --> 00:04:27,000 into a quite 105 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:29,940 while ago so I'm not really up on it but 106 00:04:35,900 --> 00:04:33,450 I know that the moon is not supposed to 107 00:04:39,110 --> 00:04:35,910 be used in any way for any type of 108 00:04:42,380 --> 00:04:39,120 military or any other for anything other 109 00:04:43,790 --> 00:04:42,390 than exploration I think the tree 110 00:04:47,210 --> 00:04:43,800 there's some type of treaty that we 111 00:04:49,550 --> 00:04:47,220 signed and I know it's against the Stars 112 00:04:52,610 --> 00:04:49,560 the Star Wars thing that came up when 113 00:04:54,410 --> 00:04:52,620 Reagan was in you know against against 114 00:04:57,580 --> 00:04:54,420 all that I mean if we start like arming 115 00:05:00,800 --> 00:04:57,590 ourselves in the in space I think that's 116 00:05:04,130 --> 00:05:00,810 who knows what that'll lead to so I 117 00:05:06,290 --> 00:05:04,140 think being prepared is good but arming 118 00:05:08,710 --> 00:05:06,300 in space I don't know exactly if that's 119 00:05:12,700 --> 00:05:08,720 such a good idea it's only gonna breed 120 00:05:15,710 --> 00:05:12,710 more a possible conflict in my opinion 121 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:15,720 yeah I just felt like in our in our past 122 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:17,970 there was a bit of of course was the 123 00:05:22,940 --> 00:05:20,970 whole space Wars program but a lot of 124 00:05:25,940 --> 00:05:22,950 there was a lot of competition among the 125 00:05:29,060 --> 00:05:25,950 different worlds powers to go into space 126 00:05:30,230 --> 00:05:29,070 more so as in an exploratory fashion you 127 00:05:33,650 --> 00:05:30,240 know the race to the moon and these 128 00:05:36,740 --> 00:05:33,660 sorts of things I love that idea but the 129 00:05:40,340 --> 00:05:36,750 rate the arms race in the sky is a bit a 130 00:05:42,110 --> 00:05:40,350 bit darker of something to to think 131 00:05:43,730 --> 00:05:42,120 about and it's maybe something like 132 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:43,740 that's better off left in science 133 00:05:49,610 --> 00:05:47,010 fiction works but that said you know 134 00:05:51,650 --> 00:05:49,620 safety is important being prepared for 135 00:05:53,540 --> 00:05:51,660 something in the future you know there's 136 00:05:55,969 --> 00:05:53,550 a lot of different satellites and things 137 00:06:00,320 --> 00:05:55,979 going on up there that I'm sure there's 138 00:06:03,650 --> 00:06:00,330 there's a national security concern you 139 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:03,660 know behind all this but I carry us to 140 00:06:09,020 --> 00:06:07,530 here a more casual explanation of what 141 00:06:10,700 --> 00:06:09,030 the plans are and maybe that's something 142 00:06:13,159 --> 00:06:10,710 that'll come out in the future but I 143 00:06:17,270 --> 00:06:13,169 prefer to think that Donald Trump caught 144 00:06:20,060 --> 00:06:17,280 wind of an oncoming UFO invasion or 145 00:06:22,700 --> 00:06:20,070 maybe he saw some upcoming Tom DeLonge 146 00:06:25,630 --> 00:06:22,710 video that Tom hasn't released as yet 147 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:25,640 and you know and this got Trump's 148 00:06:29,750 --> 00:06:27,930 Trump's back up against the wall so 149 00:06:32,750 --> 00:06:29,760 we'll see I mean maybe it'll be an 150 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:32,760 exciting month yeah yeah well I know 151 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:34,650 that's your sense of humor a lot of 152 00:06:40,399 --> 00:06:36,210 people going to take you serious on that 153 00:06:43,339 --> 00:06:40,409 but I think it's I think you know 154 00:06:45,979 --> 00:06:43,349 there probably should be protocols you 155 00:06:47,570 --> 00:06:45,989 know so far nothing has really as far as 156 00:06:49,669 --> 00:06:47,580 we know has attacked us in any type of 157 00:06:53,419 --> 00:06:49,679 way at least in the last you know 158 00:06:55,309 --> 00:06:53,429 million years but anyway you know I 159 00:06:59,329 --> 00:06:55,319 don't think it's a bad idea to have some 160 00:07:03,290 --> 00:06:59,339 preparation to address something in case 161 00:07:04,939 --> 00:07:03,300 you know we did have hostile incoming it 162 00:07:07,519 --> 00:07:04,949 would be not a bad idea to have 163 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:07,529 something lined up just I don't know 164 00:07:10,699 --> 00:07:09,330 what if we could possibly even protect 165 00:07:13,909 --> 00:07:10,709 ourselves you know if they could get 166 00:07:16,609 --> 00:07:13,919 here who knows what they could do you 167 00:07:20,769 --> 00:07:16,619 know yeah exactly it's it would be it's 168 00:07:24,709 --> 00:07:20,779 to to prepare for the threat as vague as 169 00:07:26,479 --> 00:07:24,719 you know extraterrestrial invasion it 170 00:07:28,100 --> 00:07:26,489 would be it would be a little tricky 171 00:07:30,469 --> 00:07:28,110 that I have a hard time believing that 172 00:07:32,209 --> 00:07:30,479 that's what his concern is or the 173 00:07:35,089 --> 00:07:32,219 government's concern is with you know 174 00:07:36,949 --> 00:07:35,099 but the space force but you know a lot 175 00:07:39,949 --> 00:07:36,959 of people if you if you run in some of 176 00:07:42,139 --> 00:07:39,959 the same circles online that I do and 177 00:07:44,839 --> 00:07:42,149 you read kind of some of the thoughts 178 00:07:47,779 --> 00:07:44,849 people have about extraterrestrial life 179 00:07:49,100 --> 00:07:47,789 and it's interaction with with our world 180 00:07:50,929 --> 00:07:49,110 you know there's probably a lot of 181 00:07:53,029 --> 00:07:50,939 people who think that we should be 182 00:07:55,339 --> 00:07:53,039 prepared and should be arming to defend 183 00:07:57,649 --> 00:07:55,349 ourselves when the ax time inevitably 184 00:08:00,199 --> 00:07:57,659 comes but I guess I just haven't seen 185 00:08:01,909 --> 00:08:00,209 evidence of that yet right do you have 186 00:08:03,709 --> 00:08:01,919 anything else that you were able to look 187 00:08:06,889 --> 00:08:03,719 at before the show you know there wasn't 188 00:08:08,809 --> 00:08:06,899 yeah as I the through the news and 189 00:08:11,149 --> 00:08:08,819 really I haven't seen a lot here and in 190 00:08:13,850 --> 00:08:11,159 Canada what I'm thinking about is the 191 00:08:16,699 --> 00:08:13,860 upcoming shag harbour UFO festival the 192 00:08:17,989 --> 00:08:16,709 51st anniversary is coming up we had a 193 00:08:20,029 --> 00:08:17,999 great time there together last year 194 00:08:21,649 --> 00:08:20,039 Martin I don't know whether you uh you 195 00:08:23,540 --> 00:08:21,659 plan to go through that again well I'll 196 00:08:26,779 --> 00:08:23,550 tell you one thing I would never ever do 197 00:08:30,319 --> 00:08:26,789 and that's I would never ever ever drive 198 00:08:32,839 --> 00:08:30,329 again from me you know you know I don't 199 00:08:34,429 --> 00:08:32,849 blame you that's that's a long drive had 200 00:08:37,219 --> 00:08:34,439 you had your little dog in the car so 201 00:08:39,980 --> 00:08:37,229 yeah yeah it's I can't remember it 202 00:08:42,110 --> 00:08:39,990 seemed like it was 1,600 miles or maybe 203 00:08:44,299 --> 00:08:42,120 maybe it wasn't that long but it sure 204 00:08:46,069 --> 00:08:44,309 felt like it no that's not going to no I 205 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:46,079 better you're going to that I assume 206 00:08:49,549 --> 00:08:47,370 because it's not too far away from you 207 00:08:51,049 --> 00:08:49,559 right no no just a couple hours I'll 208 00:08:54,230 --> 00:08:51,059 definitely be there and they got a great 209 00:08:56,480 --> 00:08:54,240 lineup this year Chris rutkowski Oh 210 00:08:58,250 --> 00:08:56,490 a friend of your upcoming guests MJ's is 211 00:09:00,230 --> 00:08:58,260 gonna be speaking there and really 212 00:09:03,769 --> 00:09:00,240 looking forward to that because he's in 213 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:03,779 my opinion Canada's top researcher and 214 00:09:07,970 --> 00:09:05,970 of the UFO phenomenon he publishes the 215 00:09:09,980 --> 00:09:07,980 Canadian UFO survey each year where he 216 00:09:12,290 --> 00:09:09,990 compiles the statistics of the years 217 00:09:12,980 --> 00:09:12,300 reports so I'm really excited to see him 218 00:09:15,590 --> 00:09:12,990 speak 219 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:15,600 Chris Stiles who is kind of the man 220 00:09:19,490 --> 00:09:17,730 behind the shag harbour UFO incident 221 00:09:21,560 --> 00:09:19,500 will be there again this year says it's 222 00:09:23,300 --> 00:09:21,570 going to be a great time but an idea 223 00:09:25,310 --> 00:09:23,310 that I had for you Martin you often talk 224 00:09:26,870 --> 00:09:25,320 about having people staying in your 225 00:09:28,370 --> 00:09:26,880 guest house and you know and you talk 226 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:28,380 about it a lot I know you have a 227 00:09:32,389 --> 00:09:29,970 beautiful property there you should plan 228 00:09:33,949 --> 00:09:32,399 a little festival rate on your rate and 229 00:09:35,990 --> 00:09:33,959 your your property you have your guests 230 00:09:39,350 --> 00:09:36,000 oh she could probably have you know 30 231 00:09:42,889 --> 00:09:39,360 50 people up there stargazing well I do 232 00:09:44,420 --> 00:09:42,899 I actually do have like the place part 233 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:44,430 of the place was used for conferences 234 00:09:49,460 --> 00:09:47,010 and there's a big ballroom the only 235 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:49,470 problem is the ceiling fell in so that's 236 00:09:54,860 --> 00:09:51,450 a little bit of a problem yeah that 237 00:09:56,780 --> 00:09:54,870 anyway it is fixed but still it still 238 00:09:58,250 --> 00:09:56,790 needs a lot of work but yeah it's it's 239 00:10:00,260 --> 00:09:58,260 something I thought of a look briefly 240 00:10:02,329 --> 00:10:00,270 but I'm not sure if I'll never do 241 00:10:03,889 --> 00:10:02,339 something like that but good cots and 242 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:03,899 you can happen you can even have a 243 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:05,130 journalist version where you have 244 00:10:08,930 --> 00:10:07,170 different journalists live-streaming and 245 00:10:11,810 --> 00:10:08,940 you can have it almost like a web 246 00:10:14,150 --> 00:10:11,820 conference where people your listeners 247 00:10:16,819 --> 00:10:14,160 from around the world could attend via 248 00:10:19,699 --> 00:10:16,829 the internet and you can have podcasters 249 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:19,709 journalists one can have Alejandro there 250 00:10:25,819 --> 00:10:22,890 yeah well you're the you're the thinker 251 00:10:27,319 --> 00:10:25,829 that's for sure so I really appreciate 252 00:10:29,569 --> 00:10:27,329 you coming on I know it was such short 253 00:10:32,900 --> 00:10:29,579 notice and I really do appreciate you 254 00:10:36,170 --> 00:10:32,910 coming on and when is that up in Canada 255 00:10:38,660 --> 00:10:36,180 is another two months right yeah I think 256 00:10:40,610 --> 00:10:38,670 it's the first week of August I believe 257 00:10:43,460 --> 00:10:40,620 I wish I did the data focus but it's 258 00:10:44,630 --> 00:10:43,470 yeah yeah it's I think they're having it 259 00:10:47,060 --> 00:10:44,640 at the beginning of August it's all 260 00:10:49,550 --> 00:10:47,070 online if you just google shag harbour 261 00:10:52,100 --> 00:10:49,560 UFO festival you'll find the the 262 00:10:54,319 --> 00:10:52,110 schedule and whatnot so it's it's all 263 00:10:56,150 --> 00:10:54,329 there all right excellent okay Jordan 264 00:10:58,490 --> 00:10:56,160 well thanks a lot I really appreciate it 265 00:10:59,810 --> 00:10:58,500 especially in a minute I mean just a 266 00:11:02,660 --> 00:10:59,820 couple minutes ago it seems like I 267 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:02,670 called you so anyway yeah all right I'll 268 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:04,290 talk to you sighing pleasure all right 269 00:11:08,210 --> 00:11:05,850 you take care have a great time with MJ 270 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:08,220 he's awesome all right thank you 271 00:11:14,390 --> 00:11:11,370 all right so our guest MJ Phineas he is 272 00:11:17,270 --> 00:11:14,400 a writer a blogger and who critically 273 00:11:20,210 --> 00:11:17,280 fill us fill Asafa Kalia examines the 274 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:20,220 weird the strange and the anomalous and 275 00:11:25,340 --> 00:11:22,290 he's got a book he's putting together 276 00:11:26,510 --> 00:11:25,350 we're gonna be talking about that coming 277 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:26,520 right up 278 00:11:33,020 --> 00:11:30,050 so how you doing how are you doing - MJ 279 00:11:36,500 --> 00:11:33,030 I'm doing really well how are you thank 280 00:11:39,500 --> 00:11:36,510 you and thanks so much for thanks so 281 00:11:41,140 --> 00:11:39,510 much for joining us oh it's my pleasure 282 00:11:44,330 --> 00:11:41,150 I got me a this is one of my favorite 283 00:11:46,700 --> 00:11:44,340 UFO podcasts and I was really surprised 284 00:11:49,370 --> 00:11:46,710 when you took the leap and joined kgr a 285 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:49,380 well done Mazel Tov well well thank you 286 00:11:53,510 --> 00:11:51,450 yes I one of the things I've always 287 00:11:55,370 --> 00:11:53,520 wanted to do it's been important is to 288 00:11:59,750 --> 00:11:55,380 try to you know get as much of an 289 00:12:01,190 --> 00:11:59,760 audience as I can out there and so I had 290 00:12:02,470 --> 00:12:01,200 thought about it for quite a while and I 291 00:12:04,850 --> 00:12:02,480 I can't believe I'm actually 292 00:12:07,730 --> 00:12:04,860 simulcasting I didn't know that could be 293 00:12:11,420 --> 00:12:07,740 done but on YouTube it's a great thing 294 00:12:14,150 --> 00:12:11,430 it's not really that much more work so 295 00:12:16,010 --> 00:12:14,160 it's all good so for the person let's 296 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:16,020 see I think you were on about 10 or 297 00:12:20,690 --> 00:12:17,970 about 10 months ago last time you run 298 00:12:22,790 --> 00:12:20,700 and so this is your second visit but for 299 00:12:24,820 --> 00:12:22,800 the person that is not aware of who you 300 00:12:29,180 --> 00:12:24,830 are would you mind filling everyone in 301 00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:29,190 sure yeah I'm just a humble UFO writer 302 00:12:34,790 --> 00:12:33,090 blogger journalist I write for 303 00:12:38,630 --> 00:12:34,800 mysterious universe I have my own blog 304 00:12:41,900 --> 00:12:38,640 at ter obscura net and my interest in 305 00:12:43,820 --> 00:12:41,910 UFOs has been sort of it's very old and 306 00:12:47,090 --> 00:12:43,830 then I've loved it as a kid that was a 307 00:12:49,490 --> 00:12:47,100 kid rather perfect right now the the big 308 00:12:51,350 --> 00:12:49,500 project for me has been my first book so 309 00:12:53,510 --> 00:12:51,360 that's sort of been where I've been 310 00:12:56,540 --> 00:12:53,520 hiding for I think the last year or so 311 00:12:58,640 --> 00:12:56,550 oh and could you can you tell us some 312 00:13:00,800 --> 00:12:58,650 you did tell me a little bit about it 313 00:13:02,510 --> 00:13:00,810 that go ahead and tell the listener if 314 00:13:06,350 --> 00:13:02,520 you would what that's about 315 00:13:08,540 --> 00:13:06,360 sure my book is really about the UFO 316 00:13:11,270 --> 00:13:08,550 subculture the UFO community and that's 317 00:13:13,310 --> 00:13:11,280 really what my interest is you know the 318 00:13:16,820 --> 00:13:13,320 UFOs are fascinating but for me I think 319 00:13:18,740 --> 00:13:16,830 the people who make up who make up the 320 00:13:20,870 --> 00:13:18,750 community that sort of engages with the 321 00:13:21,740 --> 00:13:20,880 UFO phenomenon that for me is really 322 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:21,750 sort of the more 323 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:23,970 fascinating thing so my book is 324 00:13:28,460 --> 00:13:26,250 basically you know exploring different 325 00:13:30,530 --> 00:13:28,470 aspects of the subculture I have sort of 326 00:13:31,670 --> 00:13:30,540 various interviews and individuals who 327 00:13:35,180 --> 00:13:31,680 have spoken to me and told me their 328 00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:35,190 stories and basically I'm sort of taking 329 00:13:39,620 --> 00:13:37,770 on the sort of trying to develop a bit 330 00:13:41,540 --> 00:13:39,630 of a framework for how the UFO 331 00:13:45,770 --> 00:13:41,550 subculture functions and and how it 332 00:13:47,330 --> 00:13:45,780 looks and what it is basically hopefully 333 00:13:51,020 --> 00:13:47,340 sort of original and the first of its 334 00:13:53,390 --> 00:13:51,030 kind well I I think you know there's 335 00:13:57,650 --> 00:13:53,400 been a lot of discussion about say for 336 00:13:59,860 --> 00:13:57,660 instance pop culture and UFOs and so I'm 337 00:14:03,110 --> 00:13:59,870 sure it kind of follows along that but 338 00:14:05,710 --> 00:14:03,120 and people have talked about you know 339 00:14:08,630 --> 00:14:05,720 kind of almost like a religious aspect 340 00:14:11,690 --> 00:14:08,640 to it and almost a cult following and I 341 00:14:14,330 --> 00:14:11,700 do think you do actually see that in 342 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:14,340 certain circumstances that there's you 343 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:18,450 know like a cult following and I'm not 344 00:14:22,690 --> 00:14:20,370 you know I'm not pointing any fingers or 345 00:14:25,630 --> 00:14:22,700 anything it's just uh it does seem like 346 00:14:28,220 --> 00:14:25,640 there is part of that going on out there 347 00:14:31,430 --> 00:14:28,230 no I agree I think that subcultures it's 348 00:14:35,540 --> 00:14:31,440 incredibly complex and there's a lot of 349 00:14:37,430 --> 00:14:35,550 nuance and I think really when we try to 350 00:14:38,900 --> 00:14:37,440 define you know who's a member of the 351 00:14:41,660 --> 00:14:38,910 subculture or who's a member of the 352 00:14:43,940 --> 00:14:41,670 community it's very difficult to draw 353 00:14:48,110 --> 00:14:43,950 those lines and distinctions especially 354 00:14:50,660 --> 00:14:48,120 since there's really no there's really 355 00:14:54,980 --> 00:14:50,670 no ivory tower or there's no sort of 356 00:14:57,140 --> 00:14:54,990 established you know university or 357 00:14:58,730 --> 00:14:57,150 there's no sort of established I guess 358 00:15:01,070 --> 00:14:58,740 paradigm that that sort of says this is 359 00:15:04,010 --> 00:15:01,080 what the UFO subculture is and it's sort 360 00:15:06,710 --> 00:15:04,020 of its encapsulated and that's it that 361 00:15:10,310 --> 00:15:06,720 doesn't exist a colleague of mine Ryan 362 00:15:12,950 --> 00:15:10,320 Sprague who's a UFO podcaster and author 363 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:12,960 he sort of said if you ever you know if 364 00:15:16,310 --> 00:15:14,010 you want to become a youthful if you 365 00:15:17,630 --> 00:15:16,320 want to become a ufologist I would say 366 00:15:21,950 --> 00:15:17,640 spin around three times and touch your 367 00:15:23,630 --> 00:15:21,960 nose and you are one right so it's it's 368 00:15:24,980 --> 00:15:23,640 one of those it's one of those things 369 00:15:27,500 --> 00:15:24,990 where we're sort of trapped in this 370 00:15:29,270 --> 00:15:27,510 weird world where we can't really draw a 371 00:15:30,530 --> 00:15:29,280 distinction or a line as to who's a 372 00:15:33,230 --> 00:15:30,540 member who isn't and this is sort of 373 00:15:35,300 --> 00:15:33,240 what this book tries to address I seem 374 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:35,310 to get a lot of people that contact me 375 00:15:43,550 --> 00:15:35,610 that 376 00:15:46,190 --> 00:15:43,560 really far out in the fringe and you 377 00:15:48,829 --> 00:15:46,200 know and I don't I've had a few people 378 00:15:50,269 --> 00:15:48,839 on that are kind of out there and I kind 379 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:50,279 of let you know the listening audience 380 00:15:57,470 --> 00:15:53,010 take it up but I've noticed an upsurge 381 00:15:59,960 --> 00:15:57,480 in people contacting me trying to get on 382 00:16:02,329 --> 00:15:59,970 the show that you know claim that 383 00:16:05,269 --> 00:16:02,339 they've been you know living among 384 00:16:06,949 --> 00:16:05,279 aliens or on another planet or they are 385 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:06,959 you know star children or you know 386 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:08,970 things like that it just seems like it 387 00:16:15,319 --> 00:16:11,730 seems to be growing are you noticing any 388 00:16:19,009 --> 00:16:15,329 trends for what what's been happening or 389 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:19,019 any upsurge or anything you know I think 390 00:16:23,569 --> 00:16:20,850 this is sort of always existed I think 391 00:16:25,550 --> 00:16:23,579 what's become obviously more prevalent 392 00:16:28,220 --> 00:16:25,560 is is you know just the rise of the 393 00:16:31,130 --> 00:16:28,230 Internet has allowed anyone sort of tell 394 00:16:32,329 --> 00:16:31,140 a story and really parsing through all 395 00:16:34,460 --> 00:16:32,339 of those individuals and trying to 396 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:34,470 figure out you know where do we draw the 397 00:16:40,250 --> 00:16:37,290 line of truth and where do we draw the 398 00:16:43,220 --> 00:16:40,260 line of just total nonsense is again 399 00:16:44,329 --> 00:16:43,230 really difficult and a lot of it like 400 00:16:46,069 --> 00:16:44,339 you know like you mentioned before it 401 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:46,079 comes down to to sort of a more 402 00:16:49,910 --> 00:16:47,970 religious or theological sense you know 403 00:16:52,610 --> 00:16:49,920 a lot of it boils down to belief do you 404 00:16:54,710 --> 00:16:52,620 you know as a podcaster and a host 405 00:16:55,910 --> 00:16:54,720 believe in their story because 406 00:16:57,829 --> 00:16:55,920 fundamentally they won't have any 407 00:16:59,780 --> 00:16:57,839 evidence really to present you that 408 00:17:02,030 --> 00:16:59,790 suggests they are star children or 409 00:17:04,189 --> 00:17:02,040 they've been living with aliens on Mars 410 00:17:05,659 --> 00:17:04,199 or you know with the reptilians or on 411 00:17:07,039 --> 00:17:05,669 the other side of the Moon ultimately 412 00:17:10,059 --> 00:17:07,049 you don't they're not gonna be able to 413 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:10,069 provide this apart from an anecdote and 414 00:17:13,549 --> 00:17:11,970 you know this is sort of good and bad 415 00:17:15,590 --> 00:17:13,559 right and this is maybe the beauty of 416 00:17:18,199 --> 00:17:15,600 the UFO subculture in that it's sort of 417 00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:18,209 total anarchy it's a total chaotic mess 418 00:17:26,990 --> 00:17:22,770 and a total chaotic system where you 419 00:17:30,020 --> 00:17:27,000 can't really delineate I guess sort of 420 00:17:32,030 --> 00:17:30,030 truth from fiction all the time I think 421 00:17:34,039 --> 00:17:32,040 at you know common sense often will 422 00:17:38,049 --> 00:17:34,049 apply and like judgment calls based upon 423 00:17:40,610 --> 00:17:38,059 common sense but then you know you can't 424 00:17:42,470 --> 00:17:40,620 they can't prove it and you can't 425 00:17:44,510 --> 00:17:42,480 disprove it and it's it's it's sort of 426 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:44,520 strange and weird and beautiful all at 427 00:17:49,049 --> 00:17:47,610 the same time I think yeah I know you 428 00:17:51,389 --> 00:17:49,059 mentioned Ryan earlier 429 00:17:55,169 --> 00:17:51,399 and I know his book was kind of along 430 00:17:59,759 --> 00:17:55,179 those that the line of this you know 431 00:18:04,230 --> 00:17:59,769 basically exploring the the psychology 432 00:18:06,509 --> 00:18:04,240 of the whole phenomena and you know I 433 00:18:09,749 --> 00:18:06,519 always have to I have to keep myself in 434 00:18:13,649 --> 00:18:09,759 check you know when I think about this 435 00:18:16,649 --> 00:18:13,659 whole topic as well and you know I try 436 00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:16,659 not to go out too far on the limb but I 437 00:18:23,399 --> 00:18:21,330 also try to be open-minded but I I I 438 00:18:26,340 --> 00:18:23,409 have not 439 00:18:29,039 --> 00:18:26,350 like followed anyone and I that's the 440 00:18:32,070 --> 00:18:29,049 part where I think when people there's a 441 00:18:36,029 --> 00:18:32,080 difference between a fan and someone 442 00:18:39,210 --> 00:18:36,039 following someone I believe and I have 443 00:18:44,269 --> 00:18:39,220 seen there are people that kind of have 444 00:18:47,669 --> 00:18:44,279 risen to the top of this field in 445 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:47,679 certain ways and some of it being a 446 00:18:50,730 --> 00:18:49,090 little bit some of them being a little 447 00:18:53,700 --> 00:18:50,740 bit fringe and they have people 448 00:18:56,310 --> 00:18:53,710 defending them which is yet very 449 00:18:59,999 --> 00:18:56,320 cult-like in a way indeed and I mean I 450 00:19:01,859 --> 00:19:00,009 have to be honest you you know as a 451 00:19:03,029 --> 00:19:01,869 podcaster and again I've had this 452 00:19:05,310 --> 00:19:03,039 conversation with Ryan his show but as a 453 00:19:07,289 --> 00:19:05,320 podcaster as someone who has to you know 454 00:19:09,450 --> 00:19:07,299 generate an audience you know often we 455 00:19:11,759 --> 00:19:09,460 have to be careful sort of what we say 456 00:19:15,779 --> 00:19:11,769 right because ultimately if you alienate 457 00:19:18,419 --> 00:19:15,789 huh alienate if you alienate someone who 458 00:19:21,330 --> 00:19:18,429 has a big following even though you know 459 00:19:24,389 --> 00:19:21,340 we can probably debate you know whether 460 00:19:26,249 --> 00:19:24,399 they're committing fraud or not you take 461 00:19:29,519 --> 00:19:26,259 a big risk and I have to be honest I 462 00:19:32,100 --> 00:19:29,529 mean you know you're gonna have a whole 463 00:19:33,629 --> 00:19:32,110 assortment of audience members today I'm 464 00:19:35,970 --> 00:19:33,639 sure that I will probably say something 465 00:19:39,539 --> 00:19:35,980 and I will make someone upset because I 466 00:19:44,970 --> 00:19:39,549 said that their favorite UFO expert or 467 00:19:47,190 --> 00:19:44,980 guru or Chandler or who knows is is full 468 00:19:51,810 --> 00:19:47,200 of it I don't want to but sometimes it 469 00:19:52,799 --> 00:19:51,820 comes out and yes you can't run that 470 00:19:55,109 --> 00:19:52,809 risk right because ultimately the 471 00:19:57,960 --> 00:19:55,119 subculture dictates whether the you know 472 00:19:59,279 --> 00:19:57,970 people listen to you or not and and like 473 00:20:01,230 --> 00:19:59,289 you said they have these cult-like 474 00:20:02,820 --> 00:20:01,240 following and they can muster a lot of 475 00:20:04,950 --> 00:20:02,830 people to come after you and 476 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:04,960 and put you down and Crake fake facebook 477 00:20:10,730 --> 00:20:06,610 accounts and troll you and all that 478 00:20:14,610 --> 00:20:10,740 stuff yeah which is is quite amazing yes 479 00:20:16,740 --> 00:20:14,620 anyone that follows my YouTube channel 480 00:20:20,340 --> 00:20:16,750 will see that there's you know I have a 481 00:20:23,580 --> 00:20:20,350 few trolls after me have been and I just 482 00:20:25,500 --> 00:20:23,590 I just don't don't let it bother me I 483 00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:25,510 just have them as long as they're not 484 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:29,050 saying anything racial or like 485 00:20:33,990 --> 00:20:31,810 slandering any of my guests I usually 486 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:34,000 don't even bother to look at too many of 487 00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:36,010 the comments unfortunately I just feel 488 00:20:42,120 --> 00:20:38,050 like it's not a place I really want to 489 00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:42,130 go no I do not engage right you don't 490 00:20:56,820 --> 00:20:52,110 everyone is welcome to their opinion but 491 00:20:58,350 --> 00:20:56,830 sometimes it makes me wonder why why why 492 00:21:01,710 --> 00:20:58,360 someone gets so upset over something 493 00:21:04,170 --> 00:21:01,720 minor when they do well I think that's 494 00:21:05,490 --> 00:21:04,180 that's kind of the the that's one thing 495 00:21:07,650 --> 00:21:05,500 the UFO subculture lends itself very 496 00:21:09,180 --> 00:21:07,660 well to is is opinion and speculation 497 00:21:11,010 --> 00:21:09,190 and that's fine I think speculation is 498 00:21:12,090 --> 00:21:11,020 great I think it's awesome that we can 499 00:21:13,530 --> 00:21:12,100 sit here and have literally 500 00:21:15,570 --> 00:21:13,540 philosophical conversations about the 501 00:21:18,930 --> 00:21:15,580 nature of the universe or the nature of 502 00:21:20,460 --> 00:21:18,940 an almost anomalous phenomena or sort of 503 00:21:23,010 --> 00:21:20,470 esoteric concepts I think that's that's 504 00:21:24,270 --> 00:21:23,020 great I think when we start making truth 505 00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:24,280 claims though and when we start saying 506 00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:27,250 you know the UFO phenomenon is X or or 507 00:21:35,250 --> 00:21:30,850 this event over here is why without any 508 00:21:37,470 --> 00:21:35,260 evidence or without any concrete data to 509 00:21:38,970 --> 00:21:37,480 back it up I think we run into problems 510 00:21:41,010 --> 00:21:38,980 and I think that this is where we sort 511 00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:41,020 of see this shift in the subculture like 512 00:21:43,650 --> 00:21:42,250 you mentioned earlier you know are we 513 00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:43,660 noticing this uptick I think you're 514 00:21:46,500 --> 00:21:44,770 getting a lot of individuals who are 515 00:21:49,710 --> 00:21:46,510 saying a lot of things and making a lot 516 00:21:52,050 --> 00:21:49,720 of claims that they are suggesting are 517 00:21:53,310 --> 00:21:52,060 true and unfortunately people are buying 518 00:21:54,900 --> 00:21:53,320 into it right you know there's their 519 00:21:56,250 --> 00:21:54,910 snake oil sales salesman and there's a 520 00:21:59,060 --> 00:21:56,260 lot of stupid people who are willing to 521 00:22:01,650 --> 00:21:59,070 buy that snake oil as well and 522 00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:01,660 unfortunately you can have someone for 523 00:22:06,780 --> 00:22:03,850 example say I have no evidence to 524 00:22:11,010 --> 00:22:06,790 support my claim but I was a soldier on 525 00:22:14,850 --> 00:22:11,020 Mars and I time-traveled and you know 526 00:22:16,710 --> 00:22:14,860 all of this stuff and provide no data 527 00:22:19,710 --> 00:22:16,720 whatsoever or evidence to back it up 528 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:19,720 people believe them and will buy their 529 00:22:23,610 --> 00:22:21,490 stuff and support them and donate to 530 00:22:25,950 --> 00:22:23,620 their cause and and you know give the 531 00:22:30,620 --> 00:22:25,960 money off your patreon or whatever and 532 00:22:33,390 --> 00:22:30,630 watch their show on gaya and ultimately 533 00:22:36,360 --> 00:22:33,400 produce a lot of noise 534 00:22:38,820 --> 00:22:36,370 whereupon the signal such as your show I 535 00:22:42,330 --> 00:22:38,830 think gets lost right um you have a lot 536 00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:42,340 of crap out there and what you then say 537 00:22:48,990 --> 00:22:45,690 was you that sent me the email last week 538 00:22:51,210 --> 00:22:49,000 which email saying all this stuff you 539 00:22:53,669 --> 00:22:51,220 just said as a joke I'm just joking with 540 00:22:58,590 --> 00:22:53,679 you so we're ready to go help 541 00:23:01,529 --> 00:22:58,600 what's that yeah I might call so we are 542 00:23:05,370 --> 00:23:01,539 ready to go into a break so we are on 543 00:23:07,770 --> 00:23:05,380 with MJ benaiah and we're gonna go on 544 00:23:12,750 --> 00:23:07,780 this break and we'll be back in about 545 00:23:16,590 --> 00:23:12,760 three minutes and so we are on podcast 546 00:23:17,190 --> 00:23:16,600 UFO and kgr radio and again my guest is 547 00:23:23,850 --> 00:23:17,200 MJ 548 00:23:25,919 --> 00:23:23,860 Anais we'll be right back all right 549 00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:25,929 gentleman word clears throught minutes 550 00:23:29,789 --> 00:23:28,330 and 40 seconds in this break mardan 3 551 00:23:31,020 --> 00:23:29,799 minutes and 40 seconds you were real 552 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:31,030 close you betcha 553 00:23:36,810 --> 00:23:33,970 oh wow okay it was a great commentary 554 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:36,820 man that was spot-on it's always 555 00:23:41,580 --> 00:23:39,850 refreshing to hear good common sense on 556 00:23:43,950 --> 00:23:41,590 the high waves here 557 00:23:46,380 --> 00:23:43,960 thanks very much I can't imagine it's 558 00:23:50,789 --> 00:23:46,390 easy with running kgr a you probably get 559 00:23:54,360 --> 00:23:50,799 a lot of interesting characters well 560 00:23:56,159 --> 00:23:54,370 he's gone well I'm here I got to be 561 00:23:58,289 --> 00:23:56,169 honest with you there's times where I'm 562 00:24:04,230 --> 00:23:58,299 ready to just start jamming pencils in 563 00:24:06,149 --> 00:24:04,240 my ears but the you know the well I'll 564 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:06,159 just say it you know the core goods the 565 00:24:12,870 --> 00:24:09,610 David Wilcock the you know the passaggio 566 00:24:15,450 --> 00:24:12,880 that none of them are ever gonna find a 567 00:24:17,610 --> 00:24:15,460 place here no but there are some of 568 00:24:20,250 --> 00:24:17,620 there like there are fans Mike right and 569 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:20,260 that's the inherent rollick yeah yeah 570 00:24:23,070 --> 00:24:21,850 like you still have a business to run at 571 00:24:26,970 --> 00:24:23,080 the end of the day you still a business 572 00:24:28,710 --> 00:24:26,980 to run right you know it's hard it's 573 00:24:29,950 --> 00:24:28,720 hard to keep everybody happy it's just 574 00:24:35,340 --> 00:24:29,960 do it 575 00:24:38,470 --> 00:24:35,350 that's true yeah last week we had we had 576 00:24:42,879 --> 00:24:38,480 dr. Bob gross on who had his theory on 577 00:24:47,109 --> 00:24:42,889 on Kecksburg and he had a theory also on 578 00:24:49,649 --> 00:24:47,119 Roswell and boy have I got a lot of 579 00:24:52,539 --> 00:24:49,659 email about that so what was his theory 580 00:24:54,279 --> 00:24:52,549 his basically his theory is that he 581 00:24:57,509 --> 00:24:54,289 thought it was up now there was some 582 00:25:00,999 --> 00:24:57,519 type of balloon that was coated with 583 00:25:03,970 --> 00:25:01,009 aluminum and like a precursor to miler 584 00:25:07,299 --> 00:25:03,980 pet I can't not remember the long name 585 00:25:08,799 --> 00:25:07,309 of it so that he was basically thinking 586 00:25:11,159 --> 00:25:08,809 that it was that that actually crashed 587 00:25:13,299 --> 00:25:11,169 and actually was pretty convincing but 588 00:25:16,060 --> 00:25:13,309 since that time there's been a couple 589 00:25:18,549 --> 00:25:16,070 blogs have come out with a you know 590 00:25:22,180 --> 00:25:18,559 punching holes and saying that he used 591 00:25:26,580 --> 00:25:22,190 you know selective evidence for that 592 00:25:30,210 --> 00:25:26,590 well it's like this that the you 593 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:30,220 mistakes Air Force I think it was at 594 00:25:40,389 --> 00:25:37,730 1996 was it this big explanation that 595 00:25:43,269 --> 00:25:40,399 had nothing to do with it right I mean 596 00:25:45,340 --> 00:25:43,279 you know developing mylar technology 597 00:25:48,810 --> 00:25:45,350 back then might have been a really big 598 00:25:51,999 --> 00:25:48,820 thing which I don't think it was so much 599 00:25:54,190 --> 00:25:52,009 but you know why wouldn't they just come 600 00:25:56,340 --> 00:25:54,200 clean with that today when the shit's 601 00:25:59,350 --> 00:25:56,350 everywhere it just didn't make any sense 602 00:26:01,239 --> 00:25:59,360 I'm back here chewing a hole through my 603 00:26:04,749 --> 00:26:01,249 seat you know what I mean I just want to 604 00:26:06,519 --> 00:26:04,759 open this mic up and say look man but I 605 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:06,529 can't do it you know I gotta sit back 606 00:26:10,239 --> 00:26:08,330 and just let these guys do their thing 607 00:26:12,129 --> 00:26:10,249 but well everyone's hearing you on 608 00:26:15,369 --> 00:26:12,139 YouTube now just to let you know in my 609 00:26:17,619 --> 00:26:15,379 podcast well good because keep the 610 00:26:23,799 --> 00:26:17,629 conversation clean I'm safe for work 611 00:26:27,249 --> 00:26:23,809 yeah but you know I just it really it 612 00:26:28,570 --> 00:26:27,259 makes me wonder you know why the US Air 613 00:26:29,830 --> 00:26:28,580 Force would go through so much trouble 614 00:26:32,409 --> 00:26:29,840 to still cover up something that's 615 00:26:34,419 --> 00:26:32,419 everywhere now it's not top-secret it's 616 00:26:36,639 --> 00:26:34,429 not something that needs to be held back 617 00:26:37,930 --> 00:26:36,649 or they just don't care like there's not 618 00:26:39,779 --> 00:26:37,940 gonna stop talking about it because like 619 00:26:43,210 --> 00:26:39,789 literally they just don't care about us 620 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:43,220 you know like does the if 621 00:26:47,529 --> 00:26:45,530 was okay see I don't want to upset 622 00:26:50,529 --> 00:26:47,539 anyone but let's just for the sake of 623 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:50,539 argument let's say Roswell is nothing 624 00:26:55,870 --> 00:26:53,690 more than mylar balloon technology 625 00:26:58,180 --> 00:26:55,880 that's beyond you know what it was in 626 00:27:00,279 --> 00:26:58,190 1947 I think we have only 20 seconds 627 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:00,289 left right okay well they're not gonna 628 00:27:03,130 --> 00:27:01,610 come in and they're not gonna be like 629 00:27:04,149 --> 00:27:03,140 anyway you know this actually it was and 630 00:27:05,740 --> 00:27:04,159 they're gonna try and disappear because 631 00:27:06,970 --> 00:27:05,750 they know that none is gonna happen at 632 00:27:08,500 --> 00:27:06,980 the end of the day if they came out and 633 00:27:11,020 --> 00:27:08,510 said at Mile Arts this advanced 634 00:27:12,370 --> 00:27:11,030 technology we had in 47 do you think the 635 00:27:13,870 --> 00:27:12,380 UFO community would suddenly be like oh 636 00:27:15,820 --> 00:27:13,880 yeah no they're right you're right 637 00:27:18,669 --> 00:27:15,830 that's right we accept this answer as 638 00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:18,679 the truth agreed but that was an awful 639 00:27:23,980 --> 00:27:20,450 big report that came out to cover up 640 00:27:28,510 --> 00:27:23,990 plastic right right so we're going back 641 00:27:30,909 --> 00:27:28,520 we're 39 seconds away 39 seconds okay 39 642 00:27:32,710 --> 00:27:30,919 seconds okay yeah 643 00:27:34,750 --> 00:27:32,720 well it was an interesting theory and 644 00:27:36,430 --> 00:27:34,760 you know it's another theory and that's 645 00:27:39,580 --> 00:27:36,440 I think that's the name of one of the 646 00:27:41,409 --> 00:27:39,590 blogs another theory out there oh hey 647 00:27:46,330 --> 00:27:41,419 look Ryan's in the chat room hey Ryan 648 00:27:49,090 --> 00:27:46,340 Ryan Sprague I love him brother Ron yep 649 00:27:51,370 --> 00:27:49,100 that's right so he's won't have to say 650 00:27:53,740 --> 00:27:51,380 hi to him and we we can take calls 651 00:27:56,860 --> 00:27:53,750 hopefully the calls will be working we 652 00:28:00,669 --> 00:27:56,870 can take them at the top of the hour at 653 00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:00,679 the top of the hour so we are coming up 654 00:28:07,149 --> 00:28:03,890 20 seconds away around all right Martin 655 00:28:14,230 --> 00:28:07,159 sweeper is fired and bumper will be 656 00:28:18,789 --> 00:28:14,240 rolling in three seconds all right MJ 657 00:28:22,390 --> 00:28:18,799 ready barn you ready I'm ready everybody 658 00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:22,400 on YouTube ready all right here we go 659 00:28:33,970 --> 00:28:29,450 gentlemen in five four three two welcome 660 00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:33,980 back to podcast UFO on kgr radio kgr 661 00:28:40,270 --> 00:28:38,090 radio.com and my guess is an MJ bonus 662 00:28:44,649 --> 00:28:40,280 and we're having a lot of fun talking 663 00:28:48,700 --> 00:28:44,659 about the UFO subculture and welcome 664 00:28:50,669 --> 00:28:48,710 back so before the break we were you 665 00:28:53,590 --> 00:28:50,679 were talking about different aspects of 666 00:28:56,950 --> 00:28:53,600 you know the we were talking about the 667 00:29:00,820 --> 00:28:56,960 different cult-like aspects of 668 00:29:05,110 --> 00:29:00,830 this not to really name any names up I 669 00:29:10,090 --> 00:29:05,120 have actually named a name on this show 670 00:29:14,500 --> 00:29:10,100 before a Steven Greer that that has 671 00:29:18,789 --> 00:29:14,510 caused me a lot of trouble so but you 672 00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:18,799 know there there are I think on any 673 00:29:21,940 --> 00:29:20,330 aspect like if you go into different 674 00:29:25,919 --> 00:29:21,950 parts of paranormal I'm sure it's the 675 00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:25,929 same thing you know what is your is your 676 00:29:31,799 --> 00:29:29,210 aspect of this book only focusing on the 677 00:29:34,029 --> 00:29:31,809 UFO topic or is it other aspects as well 678 00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:34,039 yeah you know it primarily focuses on 679 00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:37,130 the UFO community the problem is there's 680 00:29:42,460 --> 00:29:40,610 so much I guess sort of believed through 681 00:29:43,690 --> 00:29:42,470 in regards to the paranormal community 682 00:29:46,029 --> 00:29:43,700 in general or some sort of other 683 00:29:49,450 --> 00:29:46,039 esoteric concepts that will often blend 684 00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:49,460 into the the UFO community so I've been 685 00:29:54,159 --> 00:29:51,250 really struggling to try and sort of 686 00:29:56,350 --> 00:29:54,169 delineate it but at the end of the day I 687 00:29:58,870 --> 00:29:56,360 just don't know if you can all the time 688 00:30:01,060 --> 00:29:58,880 and I think that that trying to is 689 00:30:03,940 --> 00:30:01,070 making a lot of work for yourself and or 690 00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:03,950 you have to leave certain ideologies and 691 00:30:08,919 --> 00:30:07,130 paradigms out of the UFO debate that you 692 00:30:10,380 --> 00:30:08,929 just want to do if you're doing sort of 693 00:30:14,100 --> 00:30:10,390 what I'm doing which is just sort of a 694 00:30:16,450 --> 00:30:14,110 framework for the subculture I can't say 695 00:30:18,730 --> 00:30:16,460 you know people who experience 696 00:30:23,139 --> 00:30:18,740 poltergeist activity alongside UFO 697 00:30:24,820 --> 00:30:23,149 sightings you know I can't keep I can't 698 00:30:26,740 --> 00:30:24,830 keep the UFO sighting but get rid of the 699 00:30:29,230 --> 00:30:26,750 poltergeist activity right because 700 00:30:31,419 --> 00:30:29,240 that's their that's their story so I 701 00:30:33,519 --> 00:30:31,429 have to be sort of kind of open to the 702 00:30:37,690 --> 00:30:33,529 possibility that the UFO phenomenon is 703 00:30:41,740 --> 00:30:37,700 more than just an extraterrestrial sort 704 00:30:44,500 --> 00:30:41,750 of physical nuts and bolts I guess idea 705 00:30:46,269 --> 00:30:44,510 but may involve aspects of the mystical 706 00:30:49,299 --> 00:30:46,279 or sort of interdimensional or 707 00:30:51,940 --> 00:30:49,309 psychosocial or whatever so I try to 708 00:30:53,860 --> 00:30:51,950 encapsulate sort of all of it but the 709 00:30:55,930 --> 00:30:53,870 book isn't just the book isn't really 710 00:30:58,029 --> 00:30:55,940 trying to map the subculture I think 711 00:30:59,350 --> 00:30:58,039 that's what's that's that's a task 712 00:31:02,649 --> 00:30:59,360 that's impossible I mean you can't 713 00:31:04,090 --> 00:31:02,659 really can't really have any subculture 714 00:31:06,039 --> 00:31:04,100 you can't really sort of say this is it 715 00:31:09,340 --> 00:31:06,049 because ultimately those subcultures 716 00:31:10,510 --> 00:31:09,350 change quite quickly over time and in a 717 00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:10,520 short amount of time 718 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:14,450 so the book is more about trying to 719 00:31:19,090 --> 00:31:16,010 figure out how the subculture functions 720 00:31:20,290 --> 00:31:19,100 and I think one way to look at it and 721 00:31:21,850 --> 00:31:20,300 the way I try to look at it in my book 722 00:31:23,980 --> 00:31:21,860 is that sort of people within the UFO 723 00:31:27,850 --> 00:31:23,990 subculture have sort of their feet in 724 00:31:29,590 --> 00:31:27,860 two worlds on the one hand we go about 725 00:31:31,900 --> 00:31:29,600 our daily lives we buy Starbucks we go 726 00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:31,910 to work we raise our kids we cut our 727 00:31:38,290 --> 00:31:34,730 grass and and we sort of function like 728 00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:38,300 that we shop at Walmart and then on the 729 00:31:42,610 --> 00:31:40,970 other side we have this strange not 730 00:31:44,169 --> 00:31:42,620 fascination but we have this this 731 00:31:46,060 --> 00:31:44,179 strange connection let's say to this 732 00:31:48,549 --> 00:31:46,070 other world this other world that that 733 00:31:51,310 --> 00:31:48,559 we're told does not exist right we're 734 00:31:54,730 --> 00:31:51,320 told that that UFOs are our delusion 735 00:31:57,640 --> 00:31:54,740 UFOs are are our lrl hoaxes that UFOs 736 00:31:58,870 --> 00:31:57,650 are our total nonsense but for some 737 00:32:01,780 --> 00:31:58,880 reason as a community we don't 738 00:32:04,299 --> 00:32:01,790 necessarily listen to those messages and 739 00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:04,309 we we tend to I don't use the term 740 00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:08,090 believe but we tend to try to engage 741 00:32:11,350 --> 00:32:09,770 with that phenomenon in some way we talk 742 00:32:14,110 --> 00:32:11,360 about it we debate over it we speculate 743 00:32:16,380 --> 00:32:14,120 and sometimes we you know lecture at UFO 744 00:32:19,390 --> 00:32:16,390 conferences and we develop cult-like 745 00:32:24,580 --> 00:32:19,400 environments like your friend dr. Greer 746 00:32:26,020 --> 00:32:24,590 so we sort of exist in these dual in 747 00:32:29,020 --> 00:32:26,030 this dualistic kind of world as a 748 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:29,030 community and and the book tries to 749 00:32:33,299 --> 00:32:30,890 figure out how how is that possible how 750 00:32:35,799 --> 00:32:33,309 can we sort of go about our daily lives 751 00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:35,809 yet at the same time believe in aliens 752 00:32:39,850 --> 00:32:37,370 or believe in interdimensional beings 753 00:32:44,350 --> 00:32:39,860 and believe in flying saucers or black 754 00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:44,360 triangles or you know the Wolves that 755 00:32:50,049 --> 00:32:46,730 can be shot at point-blank range and not 756 00:32:51,430 --> 00:32:50,059 die from nap and Kelleher's book the 757 00:32:53,110 --> 00:32:51,440 skinwalker right like these sort of odd 758 00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:53,120 paranormal phenomena that if that show 759 00:32:58,450 --> 00:32:56,090 up that don't make sense yet we have no 760 00:33:00,460 --> 00:32:58,460 problem going to buy you know grass seed 761 00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:00,470 so we can keep our lawns looking nice 762 00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:03,170 and pretty right and I think that this 763 00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:07,490 is really the weirdness of the 764 00:33:10,870 --> 00:33:09,290 subculture it's not the people who 765 00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:10,880 believe in extraterrestrials that are 766 00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:12,410 weird at all it's the fact that we 767 00:33:17,830 --> 00:33:13,970 somehow continue to function in our 768 00:33:21,220 --> 00:33:17,840 lives with this I guess awareness or 769 00:33:24,060 --> 00:33:21,230 this idea that we are maybe not alone at 770 00:33:26,020 --> 00:33:24,070 least in some way in the cosmos or or 771 00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:26,030 inter-dimensionally or mystically or 772 00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:29,090 spiritually or whatever so do you find 773 00:33:35,700 --> 00:33:31,610 that there is there a difference between 774 00:33:38,049 --> 00:33:35,710 a person that has interest in this 775 00:33:40,510 --> 00:33:38,059 phenomenon just out of plain interest 776 00:33:42,220 --> 00:33:40,520 perhaps it started by science fiction or 777 00:33:43,930 --> 00:33:42,230 someone they know may have had a 778 00:33:46,690 --> 00:33:43,940 sighting or something like that is there 779 00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:46,700 a difference between that person and the 780 00:33:51,970 --> 00:33:48,770 person like myself that actually had an 781 00:33:53,950 --> 00:33:51,980 unexplained sighting right and again 782 00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:53,960 this this is another sort of inherent 783 00:33:59,650 --> 00:33:56,450 problem right which I sort of outline of 784 00:34:03,610 --> 00:33:59,660 a book is what what is the youthful 785 00:34:06,669 --> 00:34:03,620 community can we say someone who just 786 00:34:07,210 --> 00:34:06,679 you know watches ancient aliens is not a 787 00:34:09,669 --> 00:34:07,220 member 788 00:34:12,369 --> 00:34:09,679 versus someone who's had an experience 789 00:34:13,540 --> 00:34:12,379 is a member because the problem is I 790 00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:13,550 would say there's a lot of experiencers 791 00:34:17,230 --> 00:34:16,010 out there who would say they're not 792 00:34:18,250 --> 00:34:17,240 members at all they've experienced 793 00:34:20,500 --> 00:34:18,260 something strange something anomalous 794 00:34:21,879 --> 00:34:20,510 they saw UFO maybe they had a contact or 795 00:34:23,649 --> 00:34:21,889 abduction experience but they have 796 00:34:25,419 --> 00:34:23,659 chosen to never engage with the 797 00:34:27,010 --> 00:34:25,429 discourse they've chosen never to engage 798 00:34:30,100 --> 00:34:27,020 in the UFO debate and they've just 799 00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:30,110 walked away from it yes are they members 800 00:34:35,710 --> 00:34:33,530 are they not members so what is really 801 00:34:37,030 --> 00:34:35,720 the important aspect here versus someone 802 00:34:38,889 --> 00:34:37,040 who just watches ancient aliens and 803 00:34:41,169 --> 00:34:38,899 posts on Facebook and and has forum 804 00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:41,179 discussions and engages with that 805 00:34:46,290 --> 00:34:42,770 discourse even though there are sort of 806 00:34:48,940 --> 00:34:46,300 source materials typically flawed what 807 00:34:50,770 --> 00:34:48,950 would they then maybe beep are that 808 00:34:53,139 --> 00:34:50,780 discourse more so you know like where we 809 00:34:54,850 --> 00:34:53,149 sort of dance around these issues and I 810 00:34:58,480 --> 00:34:54,860 think that it's difficult to delineate 811 00:35:01,030 --> 00:34:58,490 who is in and who is not in that is 812 00:35:02,470 --> 00:35:01,040 really the problem well we have a we 813 00:35:04,180 --> 00:35:02,480 have some questions coming in from the 814 00:35:05,530 --> 00:35:04,190 chat and I'll get to one of them but 815 00:35:06,790 --> 00:35:05,540 first of all I just wanted to tell you 816 00:35:09,580 --> 00:35:06,800 quickly and I have told this story 817 00:35:12,730 --> 00:35:09,590 before on on this show but it still kind 818 00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:12,740 of blows my mind I'm friends with 819 00:35:17,860 --> 00:35:15,170 someone that's on the Antiques Roadshow 820 00:35:18,820 --> 00:35:17,870 so he doesn't want to talk about it he 821 00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:18,830 doesn't want to talk about his 822 00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:21,170 experience but when he was in college at 823 00:35:26,740 --> 00:35:24,050 Amherst he was in that there's some 824 00:35:28,990 --> 00:35:26,750 towers the dorms are and like these 825 00:35:30,730 --> 00:35:29,000 towers and he was like on the 23rd floor 826 00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:30,740 or something with a bunch of his buddies 827 00:35:34,630 --> 00:35:33,290 he said yes we were drinking but it 828 00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:34,640 wasn't a hallucination it wasn't that 829 00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:36,050 drunk he just had a little bit of a buzz 830 00:35:39,700 --> 00:35:37,850 on and he said this 831 00:35:41,590 --> 00:35:39,710 all of a sudden they notice out this 832 00:35:43,690 --> 00:35:41,600 window the sink comes swooping in and 833 00:35:46,570 --> 00:35:43,700 they looked at it and it was shaped like 834 00:35:48,700 --> 00:35:46,580 a box like a perfect box you know it 835 00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:48,710 wasn't it wasn't you know it was like a 836 00:35:53,140 --> 00:35:50,690 square almost like a cube but 837 00:35:55,810 --> 00:35:53,150 rectangular and it had lights flashing 838 00:35:57,640 --> 00:35:55,820 all around it and then he said they were 839 00:36:01,570 --> 00:35:57,650 all just staring at it and then it shot 840 00:36:04,540 --> 00:36:01,580 up in the sky and he said just then a 841 00:36:05,830 --> 00:36:04,550 fighter jet went toward it but before it 842 00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:05,840 could get anywhere near is the thing 843 00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:08,090 bursts into five lights and he said the 844 00:36:13,180 --> 00:36:09,890 lights seem to be reacting back and 845 00:36:14,860 --> 00:36:13,190 forth to each other and then by the time 846 00:36:17,290 --> 00:36:14,870 the jet got close to it he said the 847 00:36:19,630 --> 00:36:17,300 lights just shut off he said so fast I 848 00:36:23,050 --> 00:36:19,640 couldn't hardly see it so I said my 849 00:36:25,060 --> 00:36:23,060 goodness I said how do you feel about 850 00:36:27,460 --> 00:36:25,070 that I mean that's amazing to change 851 00:36:29,980 --> 00:36:27,470 your life he said I could give a you 852 00:36:32,830 --> 00:36:29,990 know what he says I don't care I could 853 00:36:34,990 --> 00:36:32,840 care less and so there are those people 854 00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:35,000 are and so I think that's kind of 855 00:36:39,340 --> 00:36:36,530 interesting that you're kind of 856 00:36:41,380 --> 00:36:39,350 including those people as well our did 857 00:36:43,540 --> 00:36:41,390 this subculture of where do they fit and 858 00:36:45,580 --> 00:36:43,550 that's the problem right like we don't 859 00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:45,590 know where they fit I think 860 00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:48,410 fundamentally I would have to say that 861 00:36:52,180 --> 00:36:50,930 you know it's trite because you need to 862 00:36:53,710 --> 00:36:52,190 delineate somewhere right you need to 863 00:36:57,490 --> 00:36:53,720 have a line somewhere but it's tough to 864 00:36:59,380 --> 00:36:57,500 find all the time I think that if if 865 00:37:01,450 --> 00:36:59,390 people communicate about it right if 866 00:37:03,370 --> 00:37:01,460 there is some sort of discourse or 867 00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:03,380 debate and they're they're engaging with 868 00:37:07,720 --> 00:37:05,450 that then I think that they're part of 869 00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:07,730 the community at least in some way if 870 00:37:11,770 --> 00:37:10,490 they are not engaging at all if they've 871 00:37:13,060 --> 00:37:11,780 had in a strange experience like your 872 00:37:15,220 --> 00:37:13,070 friend and they've chosen to just say 873 00:37:16,950 --> 00:37:15,230 forget it I don't care and they never 874 00:37:20,620 --> 00:37:16,960 talk about it again they never even 875 00:37:22,810 --> 00:37:20,630 think about it you know can we say that 876 00:37:24,460 --> 00:37:22,820 they're part of the community can we say 877 00:37:25,720 --> 00:37:24,470 that they're part of the the subculture 878 00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:25,730 I think they're part of a community for 879 00:37:28,450 --> 00:37:26,810 sure a committee that's had an 880 00:37:29,980 --> 00:37:28,460 experience or a community that or a 881 00:37:31,900 --> 00:37:29,990 subculture that has had an almost 882 00:37:35,020 --> 00:37:31,910 experience but I wouldn't say they're 883 00:37:36,670 --> 00:37:35,030 really part of the conversation and I 884 00:37:39,580 --> 00:37:36,680 think the conversation is really what 885 00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:39,590 the UFO subculture is it's it's the back 886 00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:42,410 and forth it's the communication over 887 00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:45,410 the UFO phenomenon that is really what 888 00:37:51,579 --> 00:37:49,010 shapes the phenomenon in a way right we 889 00:37:53,140 --> 00:37:51,589 create our theories and our hypotheses 890 00:37:54,519 --> 00:37:53,150 and that is really what kind of brings 891 00:37:59,229 --> 00:37:54,529 life into it because we can talk about 892 00:38:01,660 --> 00:37:59,239 it if we didn't do any of that we would 893 00:38:04,690 --> 00:38:01,670 have a UFO subculture at all right it's 894 00:38:09,430 --> 00:38:04,700 all about the communication interesting 895 00:38:11,759 --> 00:38:09,440 and how does this fit into like to say 896 00:38:15,039 --> 00:38:11,769 when people the people that go to 897 00:38:17,709 --> 00:38:15,049 conferences or they you know I mean is 898 00:38:19,900 --> 00:38:17,719 is that does that is that all part of 899 00:38:22,529 --> 00:38:19,910 this to like someone puts out some money 900 00:38:25,569 --> 00:38:22,539 to actually travel and go and be there 901 00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:25,579 at these for sure I think I think I 902 00:38:28,509 --> 00:38:26,930 think that's a whole separate I think 903 00:38:30,370 --> 00:38:28,519 that's sort of another there's a sub 904 00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:30,380 that's a sub subculture I think the the 905 00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:32,930 UFO conference culture is a sort of a 906 00:38:36,940 --> 00:38:35,690 separate beast it is part of the same 907 00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:36,950 thing like don't get me wrong like it is 908 00:38:41,650 --> 00:38:39,410 part of the do some culture but it's 909 00:38:44,499 --> 00:38:41,660 definitely its own kind of little 910 00:38:45,940 --> 00:38:44,509 version of it I think because there's a 911 00:38:50,559 --> 00:38:45,950 lot of things that happen at conferences 912 00:38:53,289 --> 00:38:50,569 and there's a lot of the I would say the 913 00:38:55,390 --> 00:38:53,299 communication of the UFO topic at a 914 00:38:57,749 --> 00:38:55,400 conference is is like in hyperdrive 915 00:39:00,309 --> 00:38:57,759 there right like it's it's it's not just 916 00:39:01,630 --> 00:39:00,319 you know over the computer it's not just 917 00:39:03,700 --> 00:39:01,640 over texting or it's not just over 918 00:39:05,289 --> 00:39:03,710 messenger it's not so over the phone but 919 00:39:07,029 --> 00:39:05,299 you're actually interacting with 920 00:39:08,499 --> 00:39:07,039 individuals who have had an almost 921 00:39:09,819 --> 00:39:08,509 experience so you're interacting with 922 00:39:12,849 --> 00:39:09,829 individuals who are engaged in 923 00:39:15,339 --> 00:39:12,859 investigation or or constant discourse 924 00:39:16,900 --> 00:39:15,349 so yeah it's a total separate thing I 925 00:39:19,509 --> 00:39:16,910 got - if I was gonna write a second book 926 00:39:21,670 --> 00:39:19,519 I would go to every UFO conference I 927 00:39:23,769 --> 00:39:21,680 could and just write about that like I 928 00:39:25,029 --> 00:39:23,779 think that would be like my next project 929 00:39:27,039 --> 00:39:25,039 would be to take the UFO subculture and 930 00:39:28,809 --> 00:39:27,049 like let's compartmentalize even more 931 00:39:29,969 --> 00:39:28,819 and I want to do a book on conference 932 00:39:33,309 --> 00:39:29,979 culture because I think it would be 933 00:39:34,450 --> 00:39:33,319 unbelievable and it being crazy and wild 934 00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:34,460 I mean there's the people at those 935 00:39:38,319 --> 00:39:35,690 conferences some of them like they dress 936 00:39:41,829 --> 00:39:38,329 up and they sell crystals and they yeah 937 00:39:42,999 --> 00:39:41,839 I love it yeah and that's a that's one 938 00:39:46,089 --> 00:39:43,009 of the things I mentioned last week 939 00:39:47,890 --> 00:39:46,099 about how Roswell has become you know 940 00:39:51,190 --> 00:39:47,900 commercialized in a way you know I mean 941 00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:51,200 it's it's such a you know and not only 942 00:39:57,099 --> 00:39:54,170 the the once a year parade coming up in 943 00:39:59,979 --> 00:39:57,109 what a couple weeks but not only that 944 00:40:02,380 --> 00:39:59,989 but you know the town itself you know 945 00:40:05,060 --> 00:40:02,390 restaurants being named after you know 946 00:40:07,820 --> 00:40:05,070 certain things and you know space 947 00:40:09,500 --> 00:40:07,830 chips on on signs and stuff like that 948 00:40:10,220 --> 00:40:09,510 and a lot of people are really really 949 00:40:13,100 --> 00:40:10,230 into it 950 00:40:15,230 --> 00:40:13,110 oh I mean Roswell Roswell's the town 951 00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:15,240 that it has a vested interest now in 952 00:40:17,660 --> 00:40:16,650 maintaining the fact that something 953 00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:17,670 strange happened there 954 00:40:22,820 --> 00:40:20,970 right like they cannot they if even if 955 00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:22,830 there's a an explanation that comes out 956 00:40:25,370 --> 00:40:24,450 and it's proven they'll they would have 957 00:40:28,430 --> 00:40:25,380 to fight against it right because 958 00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:28,440 ultimately economically that the UFO 959 00:40:33,890 --> 00:40:31,170 crash at Roswell is Roswell basically 960 00:40:36,980 --> 00:40:33,900 yeah yeah last week's guests would not 961 00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:36,990 it would not fare well in that town walk 962 00:40:44,210 --> 00:40:41,490 down the street I wouldn't go oh yeah so 963 00:40:46,700 --> 00:40:44,220 from the chat room what are your 964 00:40:49,580 --> 00:40:46,710 thoughts on the co-creation hypothesis 965 00:40:52,730 --> 00:40:49,590 has presented by Greg Bishop and how do 966 00:40:57,130 --> 00:40:52,740 you feel about the hypothesis that the 967 00:41:00,080 --> 00:40:57,140 hypotheses stand up for ETH and others 968 00:41:01,550 --> 00:41:00,090 ETH I think we talked about it this was 969 00:41:03,230 --> 00:41:01,560 this was the time of our last talk I 970 00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:03,240 think with that when I was on last time 971 00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:07,170 what we talked about creation of it yeah 972 00:41:13,070 --> 00:41:10,290 so if your app I mean if you're asking 973 00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:13,080 me whether I believe co-creation is the 974 00:41:17,570 --> 00:41:14,370 answer I think it's I think it's a 975 00:41:19,910 --> 00:41:17,580 pretty viable theory or hypothesis um I 976 00:41:23,090 --> 00:41:19,920 don't know if it's an answer and my 977 00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:23,100 interest in UFOs is is sort of again 978 00:41:27,710 --> 00:41:24,930 more around people and the culture in 979 00:41:29,270 --> 00:41:27,720 the community and but I I've written 980 00:41:30,740 --> 00:41:29,280 sort of several articles about Greg 981 00:41:34,340 --> 00:41:30,750 bishops co-creation hypothesis as I 982 00:41:37,190 --> 00:41:34,350 think a good sort of good middle ground 983 00:41:39,500 --> 00:41:37,200 gasps I think the problem with you know 984 00:41:40,670 --> 00:41:39,510 if we sort of zoom out on on the UFO 985 00:41:41,710 --> 00:41:40,680 narrative and look at it from a bird's 986 00:41:44,270 --> 00:41:41,720 eye view 987 00:41:46,340 --> 00:41:44,280 unfortunately the extra the 988 00:41:49,100 --> 00:41:46,350 extra-terrestrial hypothesis sort of as 989 00:41:51,710 --> 00:41:49,110 a nuts-and-bolts phenomena of you know a 990 00:41:54,260 --> 00:41:51,720 bunch of meat bodies jumping into a ship 991 00:41:55,970 --> 00:41:54,270 and flying here and doing stuff I don't 992 00:41:59,030 --> 00:41:55,980 think it generally fits all the time 993 00:42:01,010 --> 00:41:59,040 with the entire narrative typically if 994 00:42:03,050 --> 00:42:01,020 you want to go with ETH you have to 995 00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:03,060 start leaving certain aspects out or you 996 00:42:07,220 --> 00:42:04,410 have to start calling certain people 997 00:42:10,030 --> 00:42:07,230 sort of delusional or fakes or hoaxers 998 00:42:13,550 --> 00:42:10,040 or or they're just whoo-whoo-whoo 999 00:42:15,470 --> 00:42:13,560 because ultimately their mythology or 1000 00:42:18,860 --> 00:42:15,480 their their ideology doesn't fit into 1001 00:42:20,690 --> 00:42:18,870 the ETH paradigm um 1002 00:42:22,700 --> 00:42:20,700 however you know on the flip side of 1003 00:42:24,260 --> 00:42:22,710 that there are aspects of the Oakland 1004 00:42:26,180 --> 00:42:24,270 AMA known that are very material and 1005 00:42:27,530 --> 00:42:26,190 physical right they tend to show up on 1006 00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:27,540 radar every once in a while they show up 1007 00:42:30,620 --> 00:42:29,490 on gun camera footage now they leave 1008 00:42:31,100 --> 00:42:30,630 depression marks or at least they used 1009 00:42:32,330 --> 00:42:31,110 to 1010 00:42:33,830 --> 00:42:32,340 I'm gonna had actually a good UFO 1011 00:42:35,990 --> 00:42:33,840 landing case in awhile you know like 1012 00:42:38,720 --> 00:42:36,000 ones last time I UFO landed in a field 1013 00:42:38,990 --> 00:42:38,730 with like legs and anyway yeah that's 1014 00:42:42,860 --> 00:42:39,000 true 1015 00:42:45,230 --> 00:42:42,870 right you know like yeah so you at times 1016 00:42:48,770 --> 00:42:45,240 have physical evidence or trace evidence 1017 00:42:51,230 --> 00:42:48,780 I guess you call it left behind in sort 1018 00:42:55,010 --> 00:42:51,240 of the UFO narrative so I think 1019 00:42:56,480 --> 00:42:55,020 co-creation tries to to sort of find 1020 00:42:58,280 --> 00:42:56,490 itself nicely in the middle between 1021 00:43:01,670 --> 00:42:58,290 something that's more mystical and not 1022 00:43:04,220 --> 00:43:01,680 immaterial or psychosocial and something 1023 00:43:05,420 --> 00:43:04,230 that's more that's involves physical and 1024 00:43:07,540 --> 00:43:05,430 I think it tries to place itself in the 1025 00:43:10,550 --> 00:43:07,550 middle which is why I kind of like it 1026 00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:10,560 but again when one I guess 1027 00:43:14,420 --> 00:43:12,690 issued that since thought about in 1028 00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:14,430 regards to co-creation is it is it comes 1029 00:43:19,130 --> 00:43:17,370 off sometimes it's a bit of um sort of 1030 00:43:21,380 --> 00:43:19,140 like a theory of everything 1031 00:43:23,900 --> 00:43:21,390 some of Hawking asked a theory of 1032 00:43:25,580 --> 00:43:23,910 everything solution and maybe the UFO 1033 00:43:28,670 --> 00:43:25,590 phenomenon is not that you know maybe 1034 00:43:32,450 --> 00:43:28,680 the yoga phenomenon is not one thing but 1035 00:43:35,410 --> 00:43:32,460 rather a smorgasbord of a whole bunch of 1036 00:43:39,830 --> 00:43:35,420 things maybe we are dealing with a few 1037 00:43:41,300 --> 00:43:39,840 sort of nuts and bolts extraterrestrial 1038 00:43:45,430 --> 00:43:41,310 ideas maybe we're dealing with some 1039 00:43:47,180 --> 00:43:45,440 mystical or sort of interdimensional 1040 00:43:48,770 --> 00:43:47,190 hypotheses and maybe we're dealing with 1041 00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:48,780 some psychosocial and maybe they're sort 1042 00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:50,850 of coalescing or working together or or 1043 00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:52,170 just totally separate and we're just 1044 00:43:58,010 --> 00:43:55,050 experiencing it so I think we also need 1045 00:44:00,140 --> 00:43:58,020 to sort of think about whether we spin 1046 00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:00,150 into the camp of there is one thing and 1047 00:44:04,370 --> 00:44:01,770 and that is the cause of all UFO 1048 00:44:07,070 --> 00:44:04,380 experience or are we dealing with a 1049 00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:07,080 whole smattering of things that are just 1050 00:44:13,070 --> 00:44:09,450 sort of coincidentally all occurring 1051 00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:13,080 simultaneously for us oh yeah I did 1052 00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:16,770 co-creation I do interesting yeah I 1053 00:44:23,870 --> 00:44:21,690 think I don't think there is if there's 1054 00:44:27,050 --> 00:44:23,880 an answer out there to what you know 1055 00:44:30,410 --> 00:44:27,060 people are seeing and witnessing I don't 1056 00:44:32,210 --> 00:44:30,420 think it's I don't think it's one thing 1057 00:44:34,430 --> 00:44:32,220 it just seems like it 1058 00:44:37,670 --> 00:44:34,440 there's too many variables and what 1059 00:44:41,599 --> 00:44:37,680 people are experiencing to be just one 1060 00:44:43,580 --> 00:44:41,609 thing and so we are gonna we have about 1061 00:44:44,660 --> 00:44:43,590 less than 10 minutes to the break and 1062 00:44:50,390 --> 00:44:44,670 then after that we're going to take 1063 00:44:52,460 --> 00:44:50,400 calls so what about the the abductee or 1064 00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:52,470 experiencer is there mostly called now 1065 00:44:56,810 --> 00:44:55,170 what about that aspect of that does your 1066 00:45:01,010 --> 00:44:56,820 is your book and a touch into any part 1067 00:45:03,980 --> 00:45:01,020 of that a bit for sure you know I tried 1068 00:45:06,830 --> 00:45:03,990 to tie in sort of as many different sort 1069 00:45:13,670 --> 00:45:06,840 of ideas from the UFO narrative as I 1070 00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:13,680 could so I think the the I think UFO 1071 00:45:17,900 --> 00:45:15,570 experiences are the contact these 1072 00:45:21,140 --> 00:45:17,910 abductees I think they're sort of the 1073 00:45:25,130 --> 00:45:21,150 most interesting I think that really 1074 00:45:26,750 --> 00:45:25,140 when we when we think about those people 1075 00:45:29,599 --> 00:45:26,760 who have their sort of their foot now in 1076 00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:29,609 two worlds right someone who has had a 1077 00:45:33,710 --> 00:45:31,050 contact experience or an abduction 1078 00:45:36,890 --> 00:45:33,720 experience really now dwells in this 1079 00:45:38,810 --> 00:45:36,900 weird in-between zone this this the sort 1080 00:45:42,859 --> 00:45:38,820 of no-man's land if you will this gap 1081 00:45:45,770 --> 00:45:42,869 between their daily lives and this life 1082 00:45:48,410 --> 00:45:45,780 that has been totally I guess 1083 00:45:50,450 --> 00:45:48,420 interrupted or disconnected from sort of 1084 00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:50,460 the normal daily world I mean I can't 1085 00:45:55,550 --> 00:45:53,490 imagine going about my business and then 1086 00:45:57,650 --> 00:45:55,560 all of a sudden being abducted or having 1087 00:46:00,770 --> 00:45:57,660 this amazing contact experience I can't 1088 00:46:04,010 --> 00:46:00,780 imagine how it would affect me and no 1089 00:46:06,230 --> 00:46:04,020 Katie would yeah right so how do you 1090 00:46:07,940 --> 00:46:06,240 then pick yourself back up how do you 1091 00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:07,950 then you know wake up the next morning 1092 00:46:12,290 --> 00:46:09,570 and go well I'm gonna get my you know 1093 00:46:14,030 --> 00:46:12,300 venti latte from Starbucks I mean you 1094 00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:14,040 just you probably can't write you you 1095 00:46:20,720 --> 00:46:18,210 you you sort of you you you've been the 1096 00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:20,730 the victim of something or or if it's a 1097 00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:23,130 contact experience you've been sort of 1098 00:46:27,470 --> 00:46:25,290 enlightened in some way to the point 1099 00:46:30,050 --> 00:46:27,480 where you sort of don't recognize the 1100 00:46:30,980 --> 00:46:30,060 normal world as being real anymore and I 1101 00:46:34,070 --> 00:46:30,990 think that this is one thing that 1102 00:46:38,450 --> 00:46:34,080 vehicle subculture often sort of engages 1103 00:46:41,180 --> 00:46:38,460 in is is realizing that sort of the 1104 00:46:45,240 --> 00:46:41,190 daily reality you and I live in is not 1105 00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:45,250 necessarily sort of true or objective or 1106 00:46:49,350 --> 00:46:46,810 I guess it could be objective but it's 1107 00:46:51,690 --> 00:46:49,360 not really sort of I'm honest in a sense 1108 00:46:54,290 --> 00:46:51,700 if aliens are real or if 1109 00:46:57,590 --> 00:46:54,300 interdimensional beings are real or if 1110 00:47:00,810 --> 00:46:57,600 mystical you know non-human entities are 1111 00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:00,820 roaming around in our you know universal 1112 00:47:07,140 --> 00:47:05,170 consciousness you know paying your taxes 1113 00:47:10,950 --> 00:47:07,150 or or getting a mortgage seems 1114 00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:10,960 ridiculous when you know we're 1115 00:47:17,790 --> 00:47:13,450 potentially one species in a chorus of 1116 00:47:22,110 --> 00:47:17,800 others that are intelligent and how do 1117 00:47:23,490 --> 00:47:22,120 we continue to live our lives and when 1118 00:47:25,170 --> 00:47:23,500 it comes to abduction and contact I 1119 00:47:28,430 --> 00:47:25,180 think this is sort of to the nth degree 1120 00:47:31,650 --> 00:47:28,440 right this is really the big challenge 1121 00:47:33,420 --> 00:47:31,660 can you go back to your old life and and 1122 00:47:36,090 --> 00:47:33,430 does your old life seem normal 1123 00:47:38,310 --> 00:47:36,100 or are you sort of like Dorothy after 1124 00:47:41,940 --> 00:47:38,320 the the tornado right you've gone to Oz 1125 00:47:43,620 --> 00:47:41,950 and now you're back and life just seems 1126 00:47:44,820 --> 00:47:43,630 sort of colorless right the it doesn't 1127 00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:44,830 seem real anymore there's something 1128 00:47:51,230 --> 00:47:47,410 wrong with it and this is I think 1129 00:47:53,070 --> 00:47:51,240 fundamentally where abduction contactee 1130 00:47:56,430 --> 00:47:53,080 individual experience they're sort of 1131 00:47:58,860 --> 00:47:56,440 fit there they're there Dorothy and 1132 00:48:01,470 --> 00:47:58,870 they've come back and you know they're 1133 00:48:04,830 --> 00:48:01,480 trying to figure out where the hell the 1134 00:48:07,890 --> 00:48:04,840 color went I've said a number of times 1135 00:48:10,590 --> 00:48:07,900 in the show like if you know the 1136 00:48:12,690 --> 00:48:10,600 abduction experience was happening to me 1137 00:48:16,140 --> 00:48:12,700 I couldn't function I just don't know 1138 00:48:19,980 --> 00:48:16,150 how I could possibly you know go on with 1139 00:48:21,570 --> 00:48:19,990 my life and and you know by the way 1140 00:48:23,820 --> 00:48:21,580 someone's saying hi from Starbucks in 1141 00:48:25,890 --> 00:48:23,830 the chat room but I mean how could you 1142 00:48:27,720 --> 00:48:25,900 go to like Starbucks and just like live 1143 00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:27,730 the normal life after something like 1144 00:48:32,460 --> 00:48:29,530 that I mean I don't get it if these 1145 00:48:34,410 --> 00:48:32,470 people are truly being abducted kudos to 1146 00:48:36,210 --> 00:48:34,420 them for trying to fit in because I 1147 00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:36,220 certainly would have a hard time not 1148 00:48:40,380 --> 00:48:38,890 doing that myself right and I'm not 1149 00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:40,390 gonna sit here and say every single 1150 00:48:43,830 --> 00:48:42,010 abduction case or every single contact 1151 00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:43,840 case is legitimate because we can't say 1152 00:48:46,350 --> 00:48:44,770 that I think that there's gonna be 1153 00:48:48,030 --> 00:48:46,360 plenty of frauds and plenty of hoaxers 1154 00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:48,040 out there you can't you know you can't 1155 00:48:52,530 --> 00:48:50,410 believe everybody I suppose but I would 1156 00:48:56,220 --> 00:48:52,540 say that there's probably a good chunk 1157 00:48:59,099 --> 00:48:56,230 of them that I would say are legitimate 1158 00:49:01,019 --> 00:48:59,109 in some way you know again I can 1159 00:49:02,430 --> 00:49:01,029 make a claim I can't make a truth claim 1160 00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:02,440 as to the source of the vehicle 1161 00:49:06,089 --> 00:49:04,450 phenomenon so if a person was abducted 1162 00:49:07,859 --> 00:49:06,099 or if a person has a contact experience 1163 00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:07,869 I don't know what happened to them you 1164 00:49:13,109 --> 00:49:09,249 know I'm not even sure if they know what 1165 00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:13,119 happened to them but whatever did happen 1166 00:49:18,029 --> 00:49:13,930 to them 1167 00:49:19,289 --> 00:49:18,039 real as possible because ultimately 1168 00:49:22,559 --> 00:49:19,299 they're the ones who have to sort of 1169 00:49:24,180 --> 00:49:22,569 live their lives with this new 1170 00:49:26,339 --> 00:49:24,190 understanding or this sort of a new 1171 00:49:28,589 --> 00:49:26,349 interpretation of the world and the 1172 00:49:30,180 --> 00:49:28,599 strange thing is it happens you know 1173 00:49:32,819 --> 00:49:30,190 people are claiming this all over the 1174 00:49:35,009 --> 00:49:32,829 world and you know I mean who do they 1175 00:49:38,069 --> 00:49:35,019 confide in you know if they don't have 1176 00:49:43,380 --> 00:49:38,079 anyone to talk to I mean it must be you 1177 00:49:44,910 --> 00:49:43,390 know possibly it's a it could be you 1178 00:49:46,410 --> 00:49:44,920 know some of them could be sleep 1179 00:49:49,259 --> 00:49:46,420 paralysis I don't want to step on any 1180 00:49:52,289 --> 00:49:49,269 toes out there for you know because I do 1181 00:49:56,489 --> 00:49:52,299 know that you know I mean people have 1182 00:49:59,089 --> 00:49:56,499 they like see images of like being so 1183 00:50:02,640 --> 00:49:59,099 that's not uncommon in sleep paralysis 1184 00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:02,650 you know but I don't think you step on 1185 00:50:07,410 --> 00:50:04,450 any toes I mean ultimately you know we 1186 00:50:10,799 --> 00:50:07,420 have to still remain critical if it's 1187 00:50:11,700 --> 00:50:10,809 okay to be to ask people you know are 1188 00:50:13,109 --> 00:50:11,710 you sure it's not sleep paralysis 1189 00:50:14,999 --> 00:50:13,119 because ultimately I realized if I I 1190 00:50:17,279 --> 00:50:15,009 think like I've actually had a 1191 00:50:19,109 --> 00:50:17,289 conversation my wife um like if I woke 1192 00:50:20,009 --> 00:50:19,119 up one morning convinced I was abducted 1193 00:50:23,460 --> 00:50:20,019 um 1194 00:50:25,710 --> 00:50:23,470 really Wow no no no no no no I know 1195 00:50:27,809 --> 00:50:25,720 sorry no no no no what I'm saying is if 1196 00:50:30,569 --> 00:50:27,819 I did like if I had that experience I 1197 00:50:32,700 --> 00:50:30,579 thought for sure he she said I did no no 1198 00:50:38,430 --> 00:50:32,710 if I woke up one thing you heard it here 1199 00:50:40,589 --> 00:50:38,440 folks yeah yeah if if I woke up one 1200 00:50:44,339 --> 00:50:40,599 morning thinking that I was abducted I 1201 00:50:46,650 --> 00:50:44,349 would hope that I would have sort of the 1202 00:50:47,970 --> 00:50:46,660 wherewithal to sort of sit there and say 1203 00:50:50,640 --> 00:50:47,980 you know maybe I should go see a 1204 00:50:53,910 --> 00:50:50,650 psychiatrist first you know maybe I 1205 00:50:55,589 --> 00:50:53,920 wasn't actually abducted maybe I had 1206 00:50:56,999 --> 00:50:55,599 some sort of fugue state or maybe sleep 1207 00:51:00,720 --> 00:50:57,009 paralysis or maybe there's something 1208 00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:00,730 sort of maybe there's sort of an error 1209 00:51:07,529 --> 00:51:04,450 in my functioning right and because 1210 00:51:11,999 --> 00:51:07,539 ultimately that I think it's a lot 1211 00:51:13,019 --> 00:51:12,009 better then the reality that there's a 1212 00:51:16,529 --> 00:51:13,029 species roaming or 1213 00:51:19,380 --> 00:51:16,539 that has that just kidnapped people 1214 00:51:22,439 --> 00:51:19,390 randomly for for sort of various reasons 1215 00:51:26,279 --> 00:51:22,449 and does so without any ethical or moral 1216 00:51:27,899 --> 00:51:26,289 issue and just simply treats us as test 1217 00:51:30,599 --> 00:51:27,909 subjects without our consent I think 1218 00:51:32,759 --> 00:51:30,609 that is much more frightening than than 1219 00:51:34,380 --> 00:51:32,769 me just you know losing my mind a little 1220 00:51:35,699 --> 00:51:34,390 bit um so I think it's okay to be 1221 00:51:37,289 --> 00:51:35,709 critical I think we have to be critical 1222 00:51:41,339 --> 00:51:37,299 I think we can't sit here and say every 1223 00:51:44,579 --> 00:51:41,349 single story is true but again we have 1224 00:51:46,380 --> 00:51:44,589 to be cautious because the inherent 1225 00:51:49,529 --> 00:51:46,390 problem is no one can prove anything in 1226 00:51:51,179 --> 00:51:49,539 this in this field so I have to make a 1227 00:51:52,979 --> 00:51:51,189 judgment call I suppose and we all have 1228 00:51:56,699 --> 00:51:52,989 to make judgment calls who do we believe 1229 00:51:59,279 --> 00:51:56,709 and who do we not believe and this this 1230 00:52:02,519 --> 00:51:59,289 this becomes problematic because it's 1231 00:52:03,929 --> 00:52:02,529 like you go to UFO convention you know 1232 00:52:05,279 --> 00:52:03,939 I'm gonna say something here that's 1233 00:52:08,099 --> 00:52:05,289 gonna maybe hurt some feelings but I 1234 00:52:10,739 --> 00:52:08,109 half the speaker's up there that go up 1235 00:52:12,089 --> 00:52:10,749 in lecture are full of nonsense and 1236 00:52:13,949 --> 00:52:12,099 garbage and they're there it because 1237 00:52:17,880 --> 00:52:13,959 it's a cottage industry and they like 1238 00:52:20,779 --> 00:52:17,890 the the the glory and the well the money 1239 00:52:24,179 --> 00:52:20,789 quote unquote and and just the attention 1240 00:52:26,279 --> 00:52:24,189 so I think it's based more if there if I 1241 00:52:28,140 --> 00:52:26,289 had to pick between the two I would say 1242 00:52:30,419 --> 00:52:28,150 it's more based on attention than it 1243 00:52:32,579 --> 00:52:30,429 would be for the money because there's 1244 00:52:35,009 --> 00:52:32,589 no people that's a misconception there's 1245 00:52:38,249 --> 00:52:35,019 no real money in this field only for the 1246 00:52:41,189 --> 00:52:38,259 you know for the ones of that one person 1247 00:52:42,269 --> 00:52:41,199 I mentioned earlier and if Lee Adams you 1248 00:52:44,370 --> 00:52:42,279 know there's not really a lot of money 1249 00:52:48,329 --> 00:52:44,380 and we're about ready to go and to break 1250 00:52:51,149 --> 00:52:48,339 so so why don't we why don't we do that 1251 00:52:53,009 --> 00:52:51,159 we're gonna go into the break and so 1252 00:52:55,709 --> 00:52:53,019 you're listening to podcast UFO on 1253 00:52:59,099 --> 00:52:55,719 Martin Willis and my guest is MJ vinius 1254 00:53:08,279 --> 00:52:59,109 and we'll be right back right after this 1255 00:53:09,870 --> 00:53:08,289 break and we're clear and just over 1256 00:53:12,029 --> 00:53:09,880 three and a half minutes in this bright 1257 00:53:14,519 --> 00:53:12,039 gang okay three and a half I'll set my 1258 00:53:18,659 --> 00:53:14,529 timer thank you 1259 00:53:20,969 --> 00:53:18,669 so I'm not sure where you want to go 1260 00:53:24,539 --> 00:53:20,979 when we come back but we will start 1261 00:53:26,279 --> 00:53:24,549 taking calls it's hard too hard to 1262 00:53:26,790 --> 00:53:26,289 always guess how many calls we're going 1263 00:53:29,100 --> 00:53:26,800 to get some 1264 00:53:33,060 --> 00:53:29,110 no one calls in sometimes we do get you 1265 00:53:34,650 --> 00:53:33,070 know three or four calls so hey I'm down 1266 00:53:37,530 --> 00:53:34,660 for whatever you know people want to 1267 00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:37,540 give me a call take it yeah I enjoy it 1268 00:53:44,609 --> 00:53:41,770 yeah yeah do it good so we we talked a 1269 00:53:46,800 --> 00:53:44,619 little bit this afternoon so we have you 1270 00:53:51,150 --> 00:53:46,810 know about three minutes left and you 1271 00:53:52,620 --> 00:53:51,160 were talking about the Nimitz pilot no 1272 00:53:55,080 --> 00:53:52,630 not the pilot the other night are 1273 00:53:59,100 --> 00:53:55,090 actually the radio that's right dailies 1274 00:54:01,800 --> 00:53:59,110 his name Dave Dan yeah Kevin de Ken 1275 00:54:04,260 --> 00:54:01,810 getting this all wrong you're doing okay 1276 00:54:06,810 --> 00:54:04,270 on phenomenon radio Thursday night 1277 00:54:11,870 --> 00:54:06,820 amazing amazing yeah and he was on 1278 00:54:14,700 --> 00:54:11,880 coastal coasts yeah Sunday Sunday 1279 00:54:16,980 --> 00:54:14,710 Georgia yeah we broke we broke him 1280 00:54:20,520 --> 00:54:16,990 Thursday night though on phenomenon 1281 00:54:22,980 --> 00:54:20,530 radio John Burroughs working with some 1282 00:54:27,660 --> 00:54:22,990 people were successful in I heard about 1283 00:54:29,640 --> 00:54:27,670 that yes yeah it was it was a very it 1284 00:54:32,040 --> 00:54:29,650 was an amazing interview you know it 1285 00:54:33,599 --> 00:54:32,050 really it wasn't so much like a classic 1286 00:54:35,609 --> 00:54:33,609 interview like you would normally think 1287 00:54:38,359 --> 00:54:35,619 guys it was more like a couple of old 1288 00:54:41,460 --> 00:54:38,369 you know military cats just sitting back 1289 00:54:43,620 --> 00:54:41,470 talking about stuff you know yeah I did 1290 00:54:46,650 --> 00:54:43,630 listen to it it's interesting though I 1291 00:54:48,630 --> 00:54:46,660 mean there's a lot sort of there's a lot 1292 00:54:51,240 --> 00:54:48,640 happening in the background I think with 1293 00:54:53,010 --> 00:54:51,250 this and end especially with maybe to 1294 00:54:54,570 --> 00:54:53,020 the stars a little bit and George Knapp 1295 00:54:57,720 --> 00:54:54,580 and I don't know there's a little 1296 00:54:59,820 --> 00:54:57,730 backstory here that you know I don't 1297 00:55:01,770 --> 00:54:59,830 know what's going on here but he sounds 1298 00:55:04,349 --> 00:55:01,780 well that's a part of it that might be a 1299 00:55:07,380 --> 00:55:04,359 good part for you to to research for 1300 00:55:08,700 --> 00:55:07,390 your book yeah outside of conferences 1301 00:55:09,900 --> 00:55:08,710 because you know people have a big 1302 00:55:12,420 --> 00:55:09,910 misconception about conferences 1303 00:55:15,090 --> 00:55:12,430 conference is on a place where you know 1304 00:55:17,340 --> 00:55:15,100 really sought-after information is broke 1305 00:55:19,050 --> 00:55:17,350 it's where people get together and they 1306 00:55:21,830 --> 00:55:19,060 commune you know what I mean that's 1307 00:55:24,030 --> 00:55:21,840 that's what these conferences are a 1308 00:55:26,130 --> 00:55:24,040 chance for people to get close to the 1309 00:55:28,590 --> 00:55:26,140 people that they admire and and see them 1310 00:55:31,590 --> 00:55:28,600 in person just like a concert a musical 1311 00:55:33,180 --> 00:55:31,600 concert or you know one of these antique 1312 00:55:35,220 --> 00:55:33,190 road shows things that you know like 1313 00:55:37,560 --> 00:55:35,230 Martinez I mean they're fans of that I'm 1314 00:55:38,520 --> 00:55:37,570 a fan of Antique Roadshow for the love 1315 00:55:41,340 --> 00:55:38,530 of but 1316 00:55:43,920 --> 00:55:41,350 um at the end of the day you know there 1317 00:55:45,900 --> 00:55:43,930 is a group of people that will never see 1318 00:55:47,700 --> 00:55:45,910 the light of day will never do media 1319 00:55:50,040 --> 00:55:47,710 they'll never come forward they've 1320 00:55:54,660 --> 00:55:50,050 worked behind the scenes for 4050 years 1321 00:55:56,850 --> 00:55:54,670 on this yeah and and they use proxies if 1322 00:55:59,160 --> 00:55:56,860 you will people that they can convey to 1323 00:56:01,440 --> 00:55:59,170 and they can can disseminate information 1324 00:56:04,230 --> 00:56:01,450 when they want it to get out but you're 1325 00:56:06,180 --> 00:56:04,240 very right about you know sort of this 1326 00:56:09,180 --> 00:56:06,190 moving and shaking behind the scenes I'm 1327 00:56:10,380 --> 00:56:09,190 a hundred percent with you yeah Kevin D 1328 00:56:11,850 --> 00:56:10,390 is an interesting story I mean 1329 00:56:16,800 --> 00:56:11,860 ultimately he wrote a book where he 1330 00:56:19,470 --> 00:56:16,810 fictionalized this event and seven years 1331 00:56:23,340 --> 00:56:19,480 ago he wrote the book in 2010 where he 1332 00:56:26,040 --> 00:56:23,350 tells the story yeah so it's interesting 1333 00:56:27,600 --> 00:56:26,050 you know I mean I believe he was there I 1334 00:56:29,760 --> 00:56:27,610 I believe he's the real deal I have I 1335 00:56:30,900 --> 00:56:29,770 have no qualms there it just is 1336 00:56:32,700 --> 00:56:30,910 interesting that sort of there's this 1337 00:56:34,890 --> 00:56:32,710 whole back story if you start going to 1338 00:56:36,990 --> 00:56:34,900 archives of for the above top secret 1339 00:56:39,900 --> 00:56:37,000 website you can sort of find all of 1340 00:56:41,850 --> 00:56:39,910 these old posts from him and then he had 1341 00:56:45,540 --> 00:56:41,860 a posting in 2017 where he sort of came 1342 00:56:47,370 --> 00:56:45,550 out and said something about it and now 1343 00:56:52,200 --> 00:56:47,380 he's sort of now like he said he broke 1344 00:56:54,450 --> 00:56:52,210 on phenomena radio a few days ago so we 1345 00:56:57,000 --> 00:56:54,460 at a time yeah we're ready to go would 1346 00:56:58,410 --> 00:56:57,010 you guys are okay alright we'll go back 1347 00:56:59,990 --> 00:56:58,420 all right all right you can go ahead and 1348 00:57:06,380 --> 00:57:00,000 countdown 1349 00:57:09,050 --> 00:57:06,390 all right here we go in five four three 1350 00:57:13,170 --> 00:57:09,060 two 1351 00:57:17,280 --> 00:57:13,180 welcome back to podcast UFO on kgr radio 1352 00:57:20,310 --> 00:57:17,290 kgr radio calm my guest is MJ Phineas 1353 00:57:24,360 --> 00:57:20,320 and we were just discussing the 1354 00:57:28,920 --> 00:57:24,370 basically the abduction part of the 1355 00:57:31,860 --> 00:57:28,930 aspect of this you know that part of the 1356 00:57:34,710 --> 00:57:31,870 subculture so I wanted to tell you just 1357 00:57:38,520 --> 00:57:34,720 real quickly a week there's a friend of 1358 00:57:41,130 --> 00:57:38,530 the show that had a series going on it 1359 00:57:46,230 --> 00:57:41,140 was called Milgram and the fast walkers 1360 00:57:49,950 --> 00:57:46,240 and basically one the he was actually 1361 00:57:52,480 --> 00:57:49,960 played a part in this miniseries you can 1362 00:57:55,480 --> 00:57:52,490 find it online it's actually pretty good 1363 00:57:57,520 --> 00:57:55,490 and basically it was a girl that was 1364 00:57:59,770 --> 00:57:57,530 getting abducted and just had all the 1365 00:58:02,020 --> 00:57:59,780 signs of it and just you know went to a 1366 00:58:03,940 --> 00:58:02,030 therapist like you're talking about a 1367 00:58:06,490 --> 00:58:03,950 doctor first and then a therapist and 1368 00:58:09,670 --> 00:58:06,500 and all that and I think that is like if 1369 00:58:11,500 --> 00:58:09,680 someone is having this you know in their 1370 00:58:12,880 --> 00:58:11,510 life and they can't really explain it 1371 00:58:14,170 --> 00:58:12,890 but they're just totally confused I 1372 00:58:17,010 --> 00:58:14,180 think you're right I think starting with 1373 00:58:20,020 --> 00:58:17,020 a therapist and and maybe get some 1374 00:58:21,910 --> 00:58:20,030 medical checks but I'm wondering how 1375 00:58:24,910 --> 00:58:21,920 many therapists out there actually and 1376 00:58:27,870 --> 00:58:24,920 I've heard that there are some that will 1377 00:58:30,100 --> 00:58:27,880 refer people to someone like Yvonne 1378 00:58:34,590 --> 00:58:30,110 Smith or something like that you know to 1379 00:58:37,270 --> 00:58:34,600 do some regression you know hypno 1380 00:58:40,720 --> 00:58:37,280 regression what do you think about all 1381 00:58:46,900 --> 00:58:40,730 that part of it yeah you know I think I 1382 00:58:48,730 --> 00:58:46,910 think hypnotic regression has very yeah 1383 00:58:50,140 --> 00:58:48,740 I think I think it i think we bump into 1384 00:58:52,230 --> 00:58:50,150 a lot of problems with it i think 1385 00:58:55,150 --> 00:58:52,240 there's a lot of allegations that 1386 00:58:59,950 --> 00:58:55,160 hypnotic regression will create false 1387 00:59:03,340 --> 00:58:59,960 memories that often HIPPA therapists 1388 00:59:09,070 --> 00:59:03,350 will whether on purpose or by accident 1389 00:59:12,250 --> 00:59:09,080 lead the the client or to certain set of 1390 00:59:14,110 --> 00:59:12,260 beliefs about what happened so i think 1391 00:59:16,410 --> 00:59:14,120 we need to be cautious I'm not a doctor 1392 00:59:19,180 --> 00:59:16,420 I'm not an expert in psychology so I 1393 00:59:23,520 --> 00:59:19,190 can't sort of comment too much and I 1394 00:59:27,730 --> 00:59:23,530 want to be careful but I would say that 1395 00:59:29,380 --> 00:59:27,740 if I suffered from sort of an event like 1396 00:59:31,870 --> 00:59:29,390 this I probably wouldn't want someone 1397 00:59:34,360 --> 00:59:31,880 who's involved in the UFO subculture in 1398 00:59:38,560 --> 00:59:34,370 any way to check me out I wouldn't want 1399 00:59:42,580 --> 00:59:38,570 to have that sort of set ideology be 1400 00:59:47,500 --> 00:59:42,590 present in my mind as I'm you know being 1401 00:59:48,700 --> 00:59:47,510 evaluated or being helped the the bigger 1402 00:59:50,530 --> 00:59:48,710 problem though is I'm already part of 1403 00:59:54,970 --> 00:59:50,540 the subculture right I'm already engaged 1404 00:59:57,130 --> 00:59:54,980 in this this world so if I have a 1405 00:59:58,660 --> 00:59:57,140 strange sort of anomalous experience 1406 01:00:01,330 --> 00:59:58,670 like an abduction or a contact mole 1407 01:00:03,880 --> 01:00:01,340 event you know am I already gonna kind 1408 01:00:06,040 --> 01:00:03,890 of pull information that's already in my 1409 01:00:06,250 --> 01:00:06,050 head about the UFO phenomena or about 1410 01:00:08,320 --> 01:00:06,260 the 1411 01:00:11,100 --> 01:00:08,330 discourse and push it into oh my god 1412 01:00:13,870 --> 01:00:11,110 I've been abducted you know whatever I 1413 01:00:16,390 --> 01:00:13,880 think really the more compelling cases 1414 01:00:18,730 --> 01:00:16,400 of abduction in contact are people who 1415 01:00:20,340 --> 01:00:18,740 are not part of the UFO community at 1416 01:00:22,900 --> 01:00:20,350 least not before they get abducted I 1417 01:00:24,430 --> 01:00:22,910 think that those are sort of the more 1418 01:00:26,470 --> 01:00:24,440 interesting ones because ultimately they 1419 01:00:29,680 --> 01:00:26,480 have nothing really to draw on 1420 01:00:31,240 --> 01:00:29,690 they have no paradigm that they use to 1421 01:00:32,920 --> 01:00:31,250 say I was abducted by greys or I was 1422 01:00:34,840 --> 01:00:32,930 abducted by this or that they just 1423 01:00:36,240 --> 01:00:34,850 simply had an experience and they just 1424 01:00:39,850 --> 01:00:36,250 sort of talk about it 1425 01:00:42,190 --> 01:00:39,860 so I don't know I the witness in my book 1426 01:00:43,870 --> 01:00:42,200 that I that I sort of used a lot that we 1427 01:00:46,390 --> 01:00:43,880 talked it was I sort of interview a lot 1428 01:00:49,840 --> 01:00:46,400 and she was never a member of the UFO 1429 01:00:52,420 --> 01:00:49,850 community before she was just she's a 1430 01:00:55,960 --> 01:00:52,430 you know oh yeah I can try little too 1431 01:00:58,510 --> 01:00:55,970 much but she was a former flight 1432 01:01:00,610 --> 01:00:58,520 attendant lives on a farm now with her 1433 01:01:02,650 --> 01:01:00,620 husband and just sort of living her 1434 01:01:03,670 --> 01:01:02,660 daily life and all of a sudden anomalous 1435 01:01:07,270 --> 01:01:03,680 stuff started happening 1436 01:01:09,940 --> 01:01:07,280 and she reached out so this was sort of 1437 01:01:13,300 --> 01:01:09,950 a compelling case for me to investigate 1438 01:01:14,650 --> 01:01:13,310 and look into no she's never had an 1439 01:01:17,080 --> 01:01:14,660 abduction at least not that she can 1440 01:01:18,970 --> 01:01:17,090 recall she does have a few moments I 1441 01:01:21,430 --> 01:01:18,980 would say of maybe what we call missing 1442 01:01:23,410 --> 01:01:21,440 time but she has no recollection of 1443 01:01:25,900 --> 01:01:23,420 anything sort of in that in that time 1444 01:01:27,760 --> 01:01:25,910 and she's also telling her sake now 1445 01:01:29,650 --> 01:01:27,770 maybe I just screwed up on telling time 1446 01:01:31,930 --> 01:01:29,660 or maybe I just made a mistake versus 1447 01:01:34,000 --> 01:01:31,940 her you know what going down that rabbit 1448 01:01:35,260 --> 01:01:34,010 hole and telling herself law you know I 1449 01:01:40,900 --> 01:01:35,270 clearly I've been abducted by something 1450 01:01:42,010 --> 01:01:40,910 so the that sort of yeah go ahead sorry 1451 01:01:44,830 --> 01:01:42,020 I'd really lost my train of thought 1452 01:01:47,170 --> 01:01:44,840 there okay you know the missing time 1453 01:01:48,580 --> 01:01:47,180 part of this is always I always find 1454 01:01:51,310 --> 01:01:48,590 that interesting because people have 1455 01:01:53,770 --> 01:01:51,320 talked about you know situations like 1456 01:01:56,050 --> 01:01:53,780 that going way back I mean it's not a 1457 01:01:57,550 --> 01:01:56,060 new thing it's a you know people have 1458 01:02:01,180 --> 01:01:57,560 talked about all the way back into the 1459 01:02:03,010 --> 01:02:01,190 you know 50s right and I was even longer 1460 01:02:06,280 --> 01:02:03,020 I mean I think I think people probably 1461 01:02:07,960 --> 01:02:06,290 have missing time cases of individuals I 1462 01:02:12,610 --> 01:02:07,970 know I think was brought up in in either 1463 01:02:14,350 --> 01:02:12,620 valets book passport - magana of I think 1464 01:02:18,580 --> 01:02:14,360 individuals who would sort of go into 1465 01:02:20,400 --> 01:02:18,590 this sort of fairyland and you know to 1466 01:02:22,750 --> 01:02:20,410 them they've been gone for five minutes 1467 01:02:23,680 --> 01:02:22,760 partying with you know these elves or 1468 01:02:26,530 --> 01:02:23,690 whatever and they come back and they 1469 01:02:28,930 --> 01:02:26,540 been gone for five years so I think you 1470 01:02:30,760 --> 01:02:28,940 have sort of missing time sort of 1471 01:02:32,410 --> 01:02:30,770 mythology that's existence sort of for a 1472 01:02:35,500 --> 01:02:32,420 long time in in sort of the paranormal 1473 01:02:39,070 --> 01:02:35,510 world or in the I guess the mystical 1474 01:02:41,380 --> 01:02:39,080 sort of monster / fairy well I know what 1475 01:02:44,050 --> 01:02:41,390 you call that the that's sort of the 1476 01:02:47,740 --> 01:02:44,060 mythological world say that sounds good 1477 01:02:50,620 --> 01:02:47,750 that's that's a good yeah yeah blanket 1478 01:02:52,150 --> 01:02:50,630 anyway we are taking calls now if anyone 1479 01:02:53,829 --> 01:02:52,160 wants to call in that numbers up on the 1480 01:02:56,890 --> 01:02:53,839 screen if you're listening to YouTube 1481 01:03:00,190 --> 01:02:56,900 and we will take calls if anyone wants 1482 01:03:01,720 --> 01:03:00,200 to wants to call in some of us a little 1483 01:03:03,040 --> 01:03:01,730 offended I don't know if you want to 1484 01:03:05,380 --> 01:03:03,050 address any part of it but they were a 1485 01:03:08,200 --> 01:03:05,390 little bit offended about the conference 1486 01:03:11,730 --> 01:03:08,210 I can't remember exactly what you said 1487 01:03:13,750 --> 01:03:11,740 about it but maybe the fact that they 1488 01:03:15,940 --> 01:03:13,760 think you haven't gone to any 1489 01:03:19,390 --> 01:03:15,950 conferences or whatever have you gone 1490 01:03:21,370 --> 01:03:19,400 have you attended conferences I will be 1491 01:03:23,140 --> 01:03:21,380 totally honest I have not attended a 1492 01:03:24,849 --> 01:03:23,150 single UFO conference I have attended 1493 01:03:28,240 --> 01:03:24,859 like paranormal conferences I've 1494 01:03:30,490 --> 01:03:28,250 attended sort of I guess you know 1495 01:03:31,990 --> 01:03:30,500 esoteric style conferences but I've 1496 01:03:33,460 --> 01:03:32,000 never actually attended a UFO conference 1497 01:03:35,079 --> 01:03:33,470 and the reason is there's none in my 1498 01:03:38,650 --> 01:03:35,089 area I would have to board a plane and 1499 01:03:39,910 --> 01:03:38,660 fly more Natoma right I am yeah it's one 1500 01:03:43,300 --> 01:03:39,920 of smack dab in the middle of the 1501 01:03:46,060 --> 01:03:43,310 country and I also you know recently 1502 01:03:47,560 --> 01:03:46,070 started a family so I have a two and a 1503 01:03:49,420 --> 01:03:47,570 half year old daughter and we've heard 1504 01:03:51,160 --> 01:03:49,430 them one year old a one year old you can 1505 01:03:53,050 --> 01:03:51,170 hear screaming yeah she's she wants to 1506 01:03:55,630 --> 01:03:53,060 come downstairs and see what's going on 1507 01:03:57,790 --> 01:03:55,640 down here but I think my wife is sort of 1508 01:03:59,320 --> 01:03:57,800 trying to keep her occupied so if a 1509 01:04:02,170 --> 01:03:59,330 little girl pops up here you'll you'll 1510 01:04:03,910 --> 01:04:02,180 know she made it past the guard but yeah 1511 01:04:05,200 --> 01:04:03,920 I recent start a family so I've got the 1512 01:04:09,430 --> 01:04:05,210 last three years of my life have been 1513 01:04:11,079 --> 01:04:09,440 sort of dedicated to liking kids so yeah 1514 01:04:13,180 --> 01:04:11,089 my plan is to attend a conference as 1515 01:04:16,060 --> 01:04:13,190 soon as possible at least of regrets the 1516 01:04:18,370 --> 01:04:16,070 UFO phenomena right we have we've had 1517 01:04:20,140 --> 01:04:18,380 calls trying to come in I'm not sure 1518 01:04:24,310 --> 01:04:20,150 exactly what's happening someone may 1519 01:04:27,370 --> 01:04:24,320 want to try to Skype me instead and the 1520 01:04:30,089 --> 01:04:27,380 calls were they came in and hung up so 1521 01:04:33,560 --> 01:04:30,099 that skype my user name and Skype is 1522 01:04:37,960 --> 01:04:33,570 Marty Willis that's ma RT YW 1523 01:04:41,240 --> 01:04:37,970 ll I guess and don't call me Marty 1524 01:04:42,980 --> 01:04:41,250 regard yeah you know I I hope I didn't 1525 01:04:44,990 --> 01:04:42,990 sort of fight and I meant no offense 1526 01:04:48,290 --> 01:04:45,000 III don't necessary call what I what I 1527 01:04:49,490 --> 01:04:48,300 said I know I mentioned you know people 1528 01:04:50,990 --> 01:04:49,500 that they're sort of strange and wild 1529 01:04:52,490 --> 01:04:51,000 and the sense that people dress up and 1530 01:04:55,160 --> 01:04:52,500 they sell crystals and all that so if 1531 01:04:56,900 --> 01:04:55,170 it's about that I apologize I I don't 1532 01:05:01,340 --> 01:04:56,910 want to offend sort of the crystal 1533 01:05:02,990 --> 01:05:01,350 dealers yeah that's okay we have a 1534 01:05:06,460 --> 01:05:03,000 caller on the line so call your first 1535 01:05:11,900 --> 01:05:09,440 oh right hey Ryan just a quick question 1536 01:05:16,910 --> 01:05:11,910 did you dial the number or did you Skype 1537 01:05:18,950 --> 01:05:16,920 in on the username number okay all right 1538 01:05:20,570 --> 01:05:18,960 strange why it didn't work for the last 1539 01:05:23,600 --> 01:05:20,580 person that was trying to reach out 1540 01:05:26,750 --> 01:05:23,610 anyway Ryan has called a number of times 1541 01:05:30,230 --> 01:05:26,760 he's he's uh I guess he's sort of a 1542 01:05:34,160 --> 01:05:30,240 resident skeptic in a way Ryan is that a 1543 01:05:36,320 --> 01:05:34,170 good way to term you I guess I'm 1544 01:05:38,210 --> 01:05:36,330 probably closer to what Stan Freeman 1545 01:05:42,290 --> 01:05:38,220 calls a healthy agnostic how about that 1546 01:05:46,580 --> 01:05:42,300 okay we'll take that other question for 1547 01:05:47,960 --> 01:05:46,590 MJ well actually a quick comment I mean 1548 01:05:49,790 --> 01:05:47,970 you were talking earlier about someone 1549 01:05:52,460 --> 01:05:49,800 in the the chatroom getting upset about 1550 01:05:55,220 --> 01:05:52,470 a comment he made about UFO conferences 1551 01:05:57,740 --> 01:05:55,230 because he said a percentage of them I 1552 01:06:01,070 --> 01:05:57,750 forget what percentage it is of them are 1553 01:06:02,360 --> 01:06:01,080 frauds and actually kind of shares his 1554 01:06:05,480 --> 01:06:02,370 view on that I'm not gonna give a 1555 01:06:07,280 --> 01:06:05,490 percentage but that's that's what that's 1556 01:06:08,870 --> 01:06:07,290 what the person was upset about anyway 1557 01:06:12,530 --> 01:06:08,880 he can talk to that if he wants to but 1558 01:06:15,950 --> 01:06:12,540 my question was what was conductions had 1559 01:06:18,440 --> 01:06:15,960 come up what was what his opinion on 1560 01:06:20,090 --> 01:06:18,450 some of the more famous abductee cases 1561 01:06:25,040 --> 01:06:20,100 like Betty and Barney Hill or Bob 1562 01:06:28,730 --> 01:06:25,050 Mackey's or some of those yeah you know 1563 01:06:31,490 --> 01:06:28,740 it's really tough it is the problem is 1564 01:06:33,770 --> 01:06:31,500 the the the more famous the case the the 1565 01:06:36,200 --> 01:06:33,780 longer it's been talked about and 1566 01:06:37,010 --> 01:06:36,210 written about the more it sort of become 1567 01:06:40,370 --> 01:06:37,020 mythologized 1568 01:06:43,250 --> 01:06:40,380 right so you start to lose grip on on 1569 01:06:44,690 --> 01:06:43,260 sort of what really happened versus what 1570 01:06:47,420 --> 01:06:44,700 are aspects of the story they've been 1571 01:06:48,470 --> 01:06:47,430 added later it is sort of 1572 01:06:49,730 --> 01:06:48,480 it's similar to the game of telephone 1573 01:06:51,500 --> 01:06:49,740 that you know you maybe you play when 1574 01:06:54,140 --> 01:06:51,510 you were a kid right you start off with 1575 01:06:55,520 --> 01:06:54,150 a phrase and then as as the phrase kind 1576 01:06:57,230 --> 01:06:55,530 of it gets whispered into ears down the 1577 01:07:00,410 --> 01:06:57,240 line you end up at the end with 1578 01:07:05,450 --> 01:07:00,420 something totally different I think the 1579 01:07:08,210 --> 01:07:05,460 more we we continue to discuss and try 1580 01:07:11,599 --> 01:07:08,220 to find information on or or I guess 1581 01:07:13,370 --> 01:07:11,609 people write about or presented 1582 01:07:18,470 --> 01:07:13,380 conferences on you know the information 1583 01:07:19,339 --> 01:07:18,480 from the original event changes we see 1584 01:07:21,380 --> 01:07:19,349 this sort of happened all the time with 1585 01:07:23,870 --> 01:07:21,390 UFO witnesses as well right as time goes 1586 01:07:25,549 --> 01:07:23,880 on stuff from the story starts to get a 1587 01:07:28,700 --> 01:07:25,559 little fuzzy or starts to shift and 1588 01:07:32,420 --> 01:07:28,710 change and it doesn't stay 100% the same 1589 01:07:34,609 --> 01:07:32,430 as all stories sort of do right they all 1590 01:07:36,920 --> 01:07:34,619 stories will change over time memory 1591 01:07:40,900 --> 01:07:36,930 starts to fade or you start talking to 1592 01:07:42,950 --> 01:07:40,910 people and their ideas or their their 1593 01:07:47,030 --> 01:07:42,960 concepts start to kind of infiltrate 1594 01:07:49,190 --> 01:07:47,040 into yours so if you're asked you know I 1595 01:07:51,049 --> 01:07:49,200 can't just like comment on onion a 1596 01:07:53,240 --> 01:07:51,059 weather bar Benny Betty and Barney Hill 1597 01:07:56,240 --> 01:07:53,250 were abducted I wasn't there to witness 1598 01:07:58,670 --> 01:07:56,250 it but do I think that their story has 1599 01:08:00,829 --> 01:07:58,680 maybe changed over time or it's been 1600 01:08:03,370 --> 01:08:00,839 sort of lionized so much and 1601 01:08:05,990 --> 01:08:03,380 mythologized so much that it's not 1602 01:08:11,049 --> 01:08:06,000 necessarily sort of the authentic tale 1603 01:08:18,200 --> 01:08:12,799 does that answer your question 1604 01:08:19,880 --> 01:08:18,210 yeah we could get to Travis Walton cake 1605 01:08:22,309 --> 01:08:19,890 if someone brought that as a moment ago 1606 01:08:24,110 --> 01:08:22,319 into the chat room yeah and Travis 1607 01:08:28,280 --> 01:08:24,120 Walton is another sort of great case 1608 01:08:33,740 --> 01:08:28,290 right that that again over time we might 1609 01:08:35,510 --> 01:08:33,750 see slight variations of of what happens 1610 01:08:37,610 --> 01:08:35,520 not because he's lying or not because 1611 01:08:38,809 --> 01:08:37,620 he's sort of trying to mislead us or 1612 01:08:43,039 --> 01:08:38,819 anything I don't think that at all I 1613 01:08:44,930 --> 01:08:43,049 just think you know as myths develop 1614 01:08:47,689 --> 01:08:44,940 over time and the Travis Walton case 1615 01:08:49,400 --> 01:08:47,699 very much has a mythology behind it same 1616 01:08:53,419 --> 01:08:49,410 thing with Betty and Barney Hill same 1617 01:08:55,430 --> 01:08:53,429 with the Andreessen abductions and the 1618 01:08:57,380 --> 01:08:55,440 Cahill abduction like they're all kind 1619 01:09:00,019 --> 01:08:57,390 of developing this myth off surround 1620 01:09:01,160 --> 01:09:00,029 them and it sort of forms this bubble of 1621 01:09:04,189 --> 01:09:01,170 other information 1622 01:09:06,470 --> 01:09:04,199 and trying to find now the kernel of 1623 01:09:08,749 --> 01:09:06,480 truth or really the kernel of actual 1624 01:09:11,120 --> 01:09:08,759 data that is useful we have to kind of 1625 01:09:13,610 --> 01:09:11,130 travel through this large maze now of 1626 01:09:15,169 --> 01:09:13,620 all these new ideas or even changes and 1627 01:09:17,180 --> 01:09:15,179 none of that people will purposefully 1628 01:09:19,519 --> 01:09:17,190 also add to the story or change the 1629 01:09:20,630 --> 01:09:19,529 story to mess with the story as well so 1630 01:09:22,849 --> 01:09:20,640 you know I have to deal with people who 1631 01:09:24,380 --> 01:09:22,859 are sort of doing it by accident or have 1632 01:09:26,539 --> 01:09:24,390 honest intentions and are screwing up 1633 01:09:28,970 --> 01:09:26,549 but also people who are going out of 1634 01:09:31,189 --> 01:09:28,980 their way to purposefully convolute the 1635 01:09:32,990 --> 01:09:31,199 story so that it comes off as fraudulent 1636 01:09:36,260 --> 01:09:33,000 or fake when in you know reality 1637 01:09:38,150 --> 01:09:36,270 something you know did happen so I think 1638 01:09:40,010 --> 01:09:38,160 we just need to be cautious when we deal 1639 01:09:42,320 --> 01:09:40,020 with sort of these these big cases I 1640 01:09:45,919 --> 01:09:42,330 think we sort of need to maybe recognize 1641 01:09:48,620 --> 01:09:45,929 that you know myth happens and and 1642 01:09:51,890 --> 01:09:48,630 that's it actually I do want to kind of 1643 01:09:54,680 --> 01:09:51,900 quickly touch back on the the we talked 1644 01:09:56,959 --> 01:09:54,690 to what the conference think honor and I 1645 01:09:58,610 --> 01:09:56,969 said I did say 50% and and I listen I 1646 01:10:00,770 --> 01:09:58,620 can't say every single conference is 50% 1647 01:10:04,939 --> 01:10:00,780 I was just sort of making a general 1648 01:10:08,180 --> 01:10:04,949 statement but I do think a percentage 1649 01:10:11,169 --> 01:10:08,190 let's say a good number a decent handful 1650 01:10:15,700 --> 01:10:11,179 of individuals who take the stage are 1651 01:10:19,150 --> 01:10:15,710 doing it because it for them it's it's a 1652 01:10:20,870 --> 01:10:19,160 cottage industry or it's a it's a it's 1653 01:10:22,729 --> 01:10:20,880 something that they're doing not because 1654 01:10:25,880 --> 01:10:22,739 they want to be honest or truthful but 1655 01:10:27,229 --> 01:10:25,890 because it gets them attention so yeah 1656 01:10:28,400 --> 01:10:27,239 and I won't say any names but we'll stop 1657 01:10:31,610 --> 01:10:28,410 there because I want to offend anyone 1658 01:10:34,100 --> 01:10:31,620 else well along along those lines I just 1659 01:10:37,220 --> 01:10:34,110 have to say as far as getting guests on 1660 01:10:39,080 --> 01:10:37,230 the shows I always I always like having 1661 01:10:41,419 --> 01:10:39,090 you know the people that are part of the 1662 01:10:43,459 --> 01:10:41,429 cottage industry but also there's a lot 1663 01:10:47,209 --> 01:10:43,469 of people that are respect that are part 1664 01:10:50,419 --> 01:10:47,219 of that as well and round and also I 1665 01:10:54,169 --> 01:10:50,429 really enjoy getting people on when I 1666 01:10:56,390 --> 01:10:54,179 can that have never been on any UFO show 1667 01:10:58,130 --> 01:10:56,400 before then there's been a few of them 1668 01:11:00,080 --> 01:10:58,140 that I've had on it's it's hard to get 1669 01:11:01,729 --> 01:11:00,090 them because a lot of times they just 1670 01:11:06,320 --> 01:11:01,739 plain don't want to talk about it and 1671 01:11:10,040 --> 01:11:06,330 and you know the sad part of that is you 1672 01:11:13,580 --> 01:11:10,050 know you can see the downloads much less 1673 01:11:14,629 --> 01:11:13,590 if they're an unknown they'll get a very 1674 01:11:18,620 --> 01:11:14,639 low down 1675 01:11:21,649 --> 01:11:18,630 except under certain circumstances we 1676 01:11:25,149 --> 01:11:21,659 had Selma siddik was on you know she was 1677 01:11:28,970 --> 01:11:25,159 one of the Ariel school phenomenon 1678 01:11:31,520 --> 01:11:28,980 people that we have very very um that's 1679 01:11:33,950 --> 01:11:31,530 one of my highest downloaded shows so 1680 01:11:35,810 --> 01:11:33,960 there are circumstances and by the way 1681 01:11:39,020 --> 01:11:35,820 just to make this quick announcement I 1682 01:11:42,169 --> 01:11:39,030 got a text from Randall Nickerson who's 1683 01:11:44,450 --> 01:11:42,179 doing the film Ariel school phenomena 1684 01:11:47,600 --> 01:11:44,460 coming out he's been working on I think 1685 01:11:49,609 --> 01:11:47,610 for seven years or a longer so he texts 1686 01:11:52,790 --> 01:11:49,619 me today says getting very near the end 1687 01:11:57,560 --> 01:11:52,800 and by the way I'm going to be going to 1688 01:12:01,430 --> 01:11:57,570 a conference the MUFON conference in in 1689 01:12:04,100 --> 01:12:01,440 late July and and I'm going to meet meet 1690 01:12:07,129 --> 01:12:04,110 him there I've met Randy a number of 1691 01:12:09,470 --> 01:12:07,139 times but anyway I'm going to meet also 1692 01:12:12,140 --> 01:12:09,480 Selma is going to be there and I'm gonna 1693 01:12:14,030 --> 01:12:12,150 try to do a live show if possible from 1694 01:12:20,930 --> 01:12:14,040 the conference I've already cleared it 1695 01:12:23,240 --> 01:12:20,940 with with MUFON so but moving on the 1696 01:12:24,290 --> 01:12:23,250 call number is up on the line oh are you 1697 01:12:30,649 --> 01:12:24,300 all set Ryan 1698 01:12:33,830 --> 01:12:30,659 I forgot you know I'm still thanks make 1699 01:12:35,090 --> 01:12:33,840 one last comment yeah we'll say about 1700 01:12:36,680 --> 01:12:35,100 you know we'll say about those 1701 01:12:39,709 --> 01:12:36,690 conferences I've been to a grand total 1702 01:12:41,899 --> 01:12:39,719 of one and but I will say you know the 1703 01:12:44,750 --> 01:12:41,909 ones I've seen you know at the height of 1704 01:12:46,340 --> 01:12:44,760 the Roswell controversy there was a lot 1705 01:12:48,859 --> 01:12:46,350 of crossfire between a lot of 1706 01:12:51,169 --> 01:12:48,869 researchers not to name names so there's 1707 01:12:53,209 --> 01:12:51,179 there's a just blind acceptance out 1708 01:12:57,379 --> 01:12:53,219 there there is you know by a lot of 1709 01:12:59,270 --> 01:12:57,389 researchers critical evaluation I 1710 01:13:02,169 --> 01:12:59,280 wholeheartedly agree I think I think 1711 01:13:04,040 --> 01:13:02,179 researchers and this is a very sort of 1712 01:13:06,410 --> 01:13:04,050 this comes up a lot of my book in 1713 01:13:08,419 --> 01:13:06,420 regards to UFO subculture in general is 1714 01:13:11,379 --> 01:13:08,429 is sort of ufologists and researchers 1715 01:13:13,790 --> 01:13:11,389 are very quick to go after one another 1716 01:13:15,169 --> 01:13:13,800 you know it's like wolves fighting for 1717 01:13:17,899 --> 01:13:15,179 the Alpha position a little bit 1718 01:13:20,000 --> 01:13:17,909 sometimes so that's good I agree I think 1719 01:13:22,399 --> 01:13:20,010 where we bumped the problems is is when 1720 01:13:25,010 --> 01:13:22,409 you have people who are not researchers 1721 01:13:28,010 --> 01:13:25,020 and they just sort of blindly follow one 1722 01:13:28,580 --> 01:13:28,020 individual or or or they deem one person 1723 01:13:31,490 --> 01:13:28,590 sort of the 1724 01:13:33,530 --> 01:13:31,500 bert and they they sort of just tagged 1725 01:13:34,669 --> 01:13:33,540 along without reading anyone else or 1726 01:13:36,890 --> 01:13:34,679 without any sort of critical thought 1727 01:13:39,169 --> 01:13:36,900 they just kind of buy into the message 1728 01:13:41,240 --> 01:13:39,179 that's i think that where i get kind of 1729 01:13:43,959 --> 01:13:41,250 concerned in regards to some some some 1730 01:13:47,689 --> 01:13:43,969 of the conference culture let's say 1731 01:13:49,280 --> 01:13:47,699 excellent well thanks so much Ryan okay 1732 01:13:51,410 --> 01:13:49,290 well you later alright I'll talk to you 1733 01:13:53,720 --> 01:13:51,420 next time so that line is open if anyone 1734 01:13:55,879 --> 01:13:53,730 wants to call the phone number is up on 1735 01:13:58,760 --> 01:13:55,889 the screen on YouTube you're welcome to 1736 01:14:05,240 --> 01:13:58,770 call in or Skype in at marty willis if 1737 01:14:07,339 --> 01:14:05,250 you'd like to so getting back to what 1738 01:14:10,609 --> 01:14:07,349 we're talking about let's let's kind of 1739 01:14:13,790 --> 01:14:10,619 change gears a little bit and what's 1740 01:14:17,180 --> 01:14:13,800 your thoughts on to the stars academy 1741 01:14:20,390 --> 01:14:17,190 how does that fit into you know where 1742 01:14:21,850 --> 01:14:20,400 you're going with everything yeah you 1743 01:14:25,070 --> 01:14:21,860 had to the stores is such an interesting 1744 01:14:26,530 --> 01:14:25,080 idea and it's so funny because i you 1745 01:14:29,089 --> 01:14:26,540 know at when you're writing a book and 1746 01:14:30,379 --> 01:14:29,099 you you you don't it's not like an 1747 01:14:32,359 --> 01:14:30,389 article or a blog post that sort of 1748 01:14:34,310 --> 01:14:32,369 comes out immediately you need to be 1749 01:14:35,660 --> 01:14:34,320 sort of thinking two years three years 1750 01:14:37,100 --> 01:14:35,670 and i like that if you want your book to 1751 01:14:39,379 --> 01:14:37,110 still be read you know ten years into 1752 01:14:41,330 --> 01:14:39,389 the future and I have sort of had to 1753 01:14:42,530 --> 01:14:41,340 reconcile on my own mine is to the Stars 1754 01:14:45,169 --> 01:14:42,540 gonna be something that's that's gonna 1755 01:14:48,740 --> 01:14:45,179 be around for another decade or is it 1756 01:14:53,450 --> 01:14:48,750 gonna sort of exist for a while and then 1757 01:14:55,129 --> 01:14:53,460 sort of go away one thing that that was 1758 01:14:57,560 --> 01:14:55,139 sort of pointed out by George Hansen who 1759 01:15:02,530 --> 01:14:57,570 wrote he's the author of the trickster 1760 01:15:04,640 --> 01:15:02,540 in the paranormal he sort of says any 1761 01:15:06,080 --> 01:15:04,650 organizations that deal with like ghost 1762 01:15:08,479 --> 01:15:06,090 hunting or paranormal hunting or even 1763 01:15:11,780 --> 01:15:08,489 UFO investigations they tend to sort of 1764 01:15:12,950 --> 01:15:11,790 pop up and then chaos ensues and then 1765 01:15:14,390 --> 01:15:12,960 they collapse and then they disappear 1766 01:15:16,669 --> 01:15:14,400 and and we can probably go through like 1767 01:15:19,220 --> 01:15:16,679 you know tons of small little 1768 01:15:20,870 --> 01:15:19,230 organizations that you know investigated 1769 01:15:23,419 --> 01:15:20,880 UFOs that no longer exist and existed 1770 01:15:25,580 --> 01:15:23,429 maybe for a few years then and then 1771 01:15:28,430 --> 01:15:25,590 disappeared predominant due to 1772 01:15:31,160 --> 01:15:28,440 infighting so is you know to the stars 1773 01:15:33,680 --> 01:15:31,170 gonna be one of those you know I I hope 1774 01:15:36,640 --> 01:15:33,690 no I hope to the stars sort of survives 1775 01:15:39,680 --> 01:15:36,650 and weathers the storm and is able to 1776 01:15:42,379 --> 01:15:39,690 keep it to act together one thing they 1777 01:15:44,089 --> 01:15:42,389 do have is is a long list of in 1778 01:15:46,120 --> 01:15:44,099 individuals involved in it with sort of 1779 01:15:48,620 --> 01:15:46,130 serious youthful logical pedigrees right 1780 01:15:51,580 --> 01:15:48,630 we're not dealing in other pedigrees 1781 01:15:54,080 --> 01:15:51,590 yeah science and yeah DoD and all that 1782 01:15:56,209 --> 01:15:54,090 yeah they're they're a sort of invisible 1783 01:15:57,859 --> 01:15:56,219 College right in a sense they're they're 1784 01:15:59,629 --> 01:15:57,869 different sort of what Valley mental and 1785 01:16:00,799 --> 01:15:59,639 in a way they're this sort of public 1786 01:16:04,219 --> 01:16:00,809 invisible college but they're an 1787 01:16:08,029 --> 01:16:04,229 invisible College for sure so you have 1788 01:16:10,609 --> 01:16:08,039 you have a good list of individuals you 1789 01:16:15,379 --> 01:16:10,619 know we can debate whether all of them 1790 01:16:18,560 --> 01:16:15,389 are you know are good or not or whatever 1791 01:16:20,719 --> 01:16:18,570 I mean I'm not gonna make claims but I 1792 01:16:22,520 --> 01:16:20,729 think what you have at to the Stars is 1793 01:16:23,689 --> 01:16:22,530 some a lot of access that the vast 1794 01:16:27,049 --> 01:16:23,699 majority of us in the UFO community 1795 01:16:29,770 --> 01:16:27,059 don't have they can muster a lot of 1796 01:16:33,799 --> 01:16:29,780 individuals in government and within 1797 01:16:36,049 --> 01:16:33,809 private interests who have good access 1798 01:16:38,899 --> 01:16:36,059 to capital to do investigations and to 1799 01:16:40,699 --> 01:16:38,909 do research I know that they're they've 1800 01:16:41,899 --> 01:16:40,709 taken a lot of flack in regards to some 1801 01:16:43,339 --> 01:16:41,909 of their videos and I know they're 1802 01:16:44,509 --> 01:16:43,349 taking a lot of flack in regards to some 1803 01:16:47,569 --> 01:16:44,519 of the photos they've released and stuff 1804 01:16:49,879 --> 01:16:47,579 like that but at the end of the day I 1805 01:16:52,609 --> 01:16:49,889 would have to say you know who else is 1806 01:16:55,310 --> 01:16:52,619 doing what they're doing it's no one 1807 01:16:57,319 --> 01:16:55,320 really right we have a we have a caller 1808 01:16:59,209 --> 01:16:57,329 week I just want to say we're having 1809 01:17:01,699 --> 01:16:59,219 some type of issue for that there's a 1810 01:17:03,979 --> 01:17:01,709 lot of people trying to call in and only 1811 01:17:05,899 --> 01:17:03,989 like one out of three of those people I 1812 01:17:07,489 --> 01:17:05,909 can actually join to the call and I 1813 01:17:09,859 --> 01:17:07,499 apologize for that I'm not sure what's 1814 01:17:12,469 --> 01:17:09,869 going on why some I can and some I 1815 01:17:14,419 --> 01:17:12,479 cannot but caller thanks for calling you 1816 01:17:16,909 --> 01:17:14,429 got through what's your first name and 1817 01:17:18,620 --> 01:17:16,919 where you're calling from hi this is 1818 01:17:21,100 --> 01:17:18,630 Steve and I'm calling from Oregon Oh 1819 01:17:25,009 --> 01:17:21,110 Steven you were trying to call me right 1820 01:17:27,529 --> 01:17:25,019 yeah but but I was calling through Skype 1821 01:17:29,479 --> 01:17:27,539 and guys didn't work so I called the 1822 01:17:31,310 --> 01:17:29,489 number in that I got through all right 1823 01:17:33,469 --> 01:17:31,320 so I'll just tell people not to use the 1824 01:17:35,870 --> 01:17:33,479 Skype name anyway thanks for your 1825 01:17:40,189 --> 01:17:35,880 persistence you got through so you have 1826 01:17:42,620 --> 01:17:40,199 a question for our guest yeah just a 1827 01:17:44,299 --> 01:17:42,630 couple comments and something see if you 1828 01:17:48,049 --> 01:17:44,309 notice I've noticed that was all the 1829 01:17:51,319 --> 01:17:48,059 Rendell's from guys with with Kevin 1830 01:17:54,400 --> 01:17:51,329 Randall and Don Smith and just just 1831 01:17:57,220 --> 01:17:54,410 about every author and 1832 01:18:00,850 --> 01:17:57,230 person who speaks at the conferences its 1833 01:18:03,070 --> 01:18:00,860 they always add stuff to their story and 1834 01:18:05,470 --> 01:18:03,080 pretty significant stuff they change 1835 01:18:08,620 --> 01:18:05,480 their story pretty significantly so they 1836 01:18:11,920 --> 01:18:08,630 can get more people out they got to have 1837 01:18:13,720 --> 01:18:11,930 something new and that seems to be ID so 1838 01:18:15,730 --> 01:18:13,730 I've been listening to this stuff for 1839 01:18:18,760 --> 01:18:15,740 many many years 1840 01:18:21,070 --> 01:18:18,770 reluctantly but I I saw something when I 1841 01:18:23,440 --> 01:18:21,080 was a kid so I kind of had to keep my 1842 01:18:24,940 --> 01:18:23,450 toe in them in the pool of ufology 1843 01:18:30,070 --> 01:18:24,950 because there's nowhere else you can 1844 01:18:33,100 --> 01:18:30,080 find out anything about this but I just 1845 01:18:34,900 --> 01:18:33,110 do you see that I mean everybody in the 1846 01:18:39,280 --> 01:18:34,910 Rendlesham case is added very 1847 01:18:41,200 --> 01:18:39,290 significant to their story Travis Walton 1848 01:18:44,200 --> 01:18:41,210 has completely changed his story 1849 01:18:46,180 --> 01:18:44,210 I've met all these I have to disagree 1850 01:18:47,650 --> 01:18:46,190 with you as far as maybe you know 1851 01:18:50,620 --> 01:18:47,660 something that I don't but one of the 1852 01:18:53,890 --> 01:18:50,630 people I've thought all along and MJ 1853 01:18:56,980 --> 01:18:53,900 sorry for me jumping in but I haven't 1854 01:18:59,650 --> 01:18:56,990 seen Travis change his story 1855 01:19:01,150 --> 01:18:59,660 so I mean oh yeah oh yeah absolutely in 1856 01:19:04,060 --> 01:19:01,160 the beginning you go back and find 1857 01:19:06,670 --> 01:19:04,070 YouTube videos of of Travis Walton back 1858 01:19:09,400 --> 01:19:06,680 in the beginning back in the early ones 1859 01:19:11,320 --> 01:19:09,410 back in the 90s and and I mean it 1860 01:19:13,150 --> 01:19:11,330 happened back in the 70s but there's 1861 01:19:16,930 --> 01:19:13,160 YouTube videos of him back in the stuff 1862 01:19:19,420 --> 01:19:16,940 he didn't remember anything and now and 1863 01:19:22,930 --> 01:19:19,430 then you know magically a few years 1864 01:19:26,140 --> 01:19:22,940 later not only is he remember everything 1865 01:19:29,830 --> 01:19:26,150 he's interpreting everything no you know 1866 01:19:32,230 --> 01:19:29,840 at first the he didn't remember anything 1867 01:19:34,270 --> 01:19:32,240 and then he's interpreting well I think 1868 01:19:35,440 --> 01:19:34,280 they were trying to save me why they 1869 01:19:38,950 --> 01:19:35,450 were trying to help me 1870 01:19:42,730 --> 01:19:38,960 right and I totally changed he's totally 1871 01:19:45,040 --> 01:19:42,740 changed his original version of of the 1872 01:19:49,170 --> 01:19:45,050 event the original version of the event 1873 01:19:51,910 --> 01:19:49,180 was he didn't remember anything at all 1874 01:19:54,460 --> 01:19:51,920 and you can actually find that on your 1875 01:19:58,180 --> 01:19:54,470 saying you can actually find that on you 1876 01:20:00,730 --> 01:19:58,190 oh yeah yeah definitely find it out 1877 01:20:03,040 --> 01:20:00,740 there yeah but you have to go way back 1878 01:20:04,860 --> 01:20:03,050 and that's what they all do I mean look 1879 01:20:08,120 --> 01:20:04,870 at the Rendlesham guys the way they've 1880 01:20:11,820 --> 01:20:08,130 you know what his name 1881 01:20:13,890 --> 01:20:11,830 chimp is under the gender Anniston yeah 1882 01:20:17,120 --> 01:20:13,900 Jim Penniston who had the binary 1883 01:20:20,250 --> 01:20:17,130 download yeah that's that's questionable 1884 01:20:23,030 --> 01:20:20,260 but one of the people I do think is 1885 01:20:25,980 --> 01:20:23,040 pretty solid in that and has kind of 1886 01:20:26,690 --> 01:20:25,990 really kept things the same as Charles 1887 01:20:33,720 --> 01:20:26,700 Hall 1888 01:20:37,980 --> 01:20:33,730 really big big problem to answer for is 1889 01:20:40,410 --> 01:20:37,990 this was a you know this is an Air Force 1890 01:20:43,050 --> 01:20:40,420 Base in the middle of the nuke in the 1891 01:20:50,550 --> 01:20:43,060 middle of the Cold War that had nukes on 1892 01:20:53,970 --> 01:20:50,560 site and his one-page memo says are you 1893 01:20:56,130 --> 01:20:53,980 there I think we lost our column and 1894 01:21:01,380 --> 01:20:56,140 they didn't scramble a plane or pick up 1895 01:21:02,760 --> 01:21:01,390 a phone but he has never admitted and he 1896 01:21:04,830 --> 01:21:02,770 won't admit to matter of fact he got 1897 01:21:07,410 --> 01:21:04,840 offended when I asked him if there were 1898 01:21:11,130 --> 01:21:07,420 nukes on the base and I don't know if we 1899 01:21:13,470 --> 01:21:11,140 know for sure if there were yes we do 1900 01:21:15,480 --> 01:21:13,480 because they in interviews that they've 1901 01:21:17,220 --> 01:21:15,490 done through the years Penniston and 1902 01:21:20,400 --> 01:21:17,230 some of the other one command Zack and 1903 01:21:25,050 --> 01:21:20,410 some of the other ones they've said yes 1904 01:21:27,600 --> 01:21:25,060 there were nukes on site and and the way 1905 01:21:29,430 --> 01:21:27,610 they danced around it was they said okay 1906 01:21:33,770 --> 01:21:29,440 so we were at the storage units that 1907 01:21:36,750 --> 01:21:33,780 were labeled non nuclear storage 1908 01:21:39,230 --> 01:21:36,760 implying clearly and that's there that's 1909 01:21:44,250 --> 01:21:39,240 specifically why they were doing 1910 01:21:48,660 --> 01:21:44,260 implying clearly that there was nuclear 1911 01:21:50,670 --> 01:21:48,670 storage on the base I mean that's where 1912 01:21:52,800 --> 01:21:50,680 the the big claims that was the base 1913 01:21:56,460 --> 01:21:52,810 where the big planes went out of not the 1914 01:21:58,770 --> 01:21:56,470 little jet so Stephen let me get this 1915 01:22:03,690 --> 01:21:58,780 straight you're you're questioning why 1916 01:22:06,360 --> 01:22:03,700 halt didn't didn't call to have you know 1917 01:22:07,890 --> 01:22:06,370 military flights checking checking the 1918 01:22:11,790 --> 01:22:07,900 object out is that is that what you're 1919 01:22:15,210 --> 01:22:11,800 saying okay so it it wasn't object it 1920 01:22:18,750 --> 01:22:15,220 was objects and Colonel halt added to 1921 01:22:21,000 --> 01:22:18,760 his story to in the beginning he just 1922 01:22:21,460 --> 01:22:21,010 had this tape recording you go back and 1923 01:22:23,860 --> 01:22:21,470 find the 1924 01:22:26,620 --> 01:22:23,870 early enemies with halt and then and 1925 01:22:28,690 --> 01:22:26,630 then 10-15 years later all of a sudden 1926 01:22:30,910 --> 01:22:28,700 there's beams coming down and and 1927 01:22:33,280 --> 01:22:30,920 hitting the ground near his feet and 1928 01:22:36,010 --> 01:22:33,290 that's Charl Hulk that's not the other 1929 01:22:37,810 --> 01:22:36,020 guys isn't that all the recording isn't 1930 01:22:42,520 --> 01:22:37,820 that on the tape recording doesn't he 1931 01:22:48,120 --> 01:22:42,530 say something about that on the audio 1932 01:22:50,260 --> 01:22:48,130 recording no no he does not 1933 01:22:55,540 --> 01:22:50,270 don't listen to that again because I 1934 01:22:57,790 --> 01:22:55,550 thought I thought that was mentioned I 1935 01:22:59,950 --> 01:22:57,800 mean yeah yeah yeah go ahead yeah no 1936 01:23:02,320 --> 01:22:59,960 just to get him get back to the original 1937 01:23:04,660 --> 01:23:02,330 question or the original comment I think 1938 01:23:06,370 --> 01:23:04,670 people I mean in regards to stories 1939 01:23:08,320 --> 01:23:06,380 right that that we we sort of tell I 1940 01:23:10,300 --> 01:23:08,330 think you know it's like when your 1941 01:23:11,770 --> 01:23:10,310 grandpa tells you you know he caught 1942 01:23:13,540 --> 01:23:11,780 this fish and when he first tells a 1943 01:23:15,310 --> 01:23:13,550 story it was you know you know this big 1944 01:23:20,190 --> 01:23:15,320 and then it you know it got this big and 1945 01:23:22,990 --> 01:23:20,200 now it's I think we just naturally I 1946 01:23:24,880 --> 01:23:23,000 think we just naturally interpret the 1947 01:23:26,680 --> 01:23:24,890 story and change the story as time goes 1948 01:23:27,760 --> 01:23:26,690 on because maybe we sort of hear other 1949 01:23:29,290 --> 01:23:27,770 stories or other stories that were 1950 01:23:31,810 --> 01:23:29,300 similar it again regrets to Travis 1951 01:23:33,250 --> 01:23:31,820 Walton for example he's interpreting it 1952 01:23:35,680 --> 01:23:33,260 now because ultimately it happened to 1953 01:23:37,900 --> 01:23:35,690 him 40 years ago and now maybe he's 1954 01:23:39,640 --> 01:23:37,910 trying to make sense of it um I I agree 1955 01:23:41,380 --> 01:23:39,650 I think when it was fresh and it just 1956 01:23:42,790 --> 01:23:41,390 happened for sure maybe he was sort of 1957 01:23:46,150 --> 01:23:42,800 unable to interpret it because he didn't 1958 01:23:48,460 --> 01:23:46,160 have the the time that it would require 1959 01:23:50,890 --> 01:23:48,470 to sort of heal I guess the mental 1960 01:23:54,910 --> 01:23:50,900 wounds let's say he suffered assuming it 1961 01:23:57,370 --> 01:23:54,920 happened and we're like on it yeah 1962 01:23:59,830 --> 01:23:57,380 another another cake on it might be that 1963 01:24:03,660 --> 01:23:59,840 you know he wants to socialize it and 1964 01:24:05,830 --> 01:24:03,670 open up an entire you know new area of 1965 01:24:07,180 --> 01:24:05,840 yeah and you know what we could I mean 1966 01:24:09,180 --> 01:24:07,190 obviously we could debate that right we 1967 01:24:12,250 --> 01:24:09,190 could say you know maybe maybe he is 1968 01:24:14,890 --> 01:24:12,260 sort of being maybe he did have some 1969 01:24:16,930 --> 01:24:14,900 sort of experience but now as time is 1970 01:24:19,630 --> 01:24:16,940 going on and any interest is waning he 1971 01:24:21,400 --> 01:24:19,640 needs to stay relevant for sure I mean 1972 01:24:24,180 --> 01:24:21,410 that's that's it is debatable right we 1973 01:24:26,800 --> 01:24:24,190 ultimately don't have really any 1974 01:24:27,760 --> 01:24:26,810 necessarily evidence either/or right 1975 01:24:29,980 --> 01:24:27,770 like it's not like he can you know 1976 01:24:32,620 --> 01:24:29,990 produce you know a piece of the ship or 1977 01:24:35,290 --> 01:24:32,630 something to you know say here you go it 1978 01:24:37,779 --> 01:24:35,300 actually happened perfect 1979 01:24:40,509 --> 01:24:37,789 so my question it really comes down to 1980 01:24:44,049 --> 01:24:40,519 this so what would somebody early in the 1981 01:24:47,410 --> 01:24:44,059 show Martin said that you know he had a 1982 01:24:51,189 --> 01:24:47,420 sighting and so is caused it has caused 1983 01:24:53,290 --> 01:24:51,199 this perpetual curiosity in this and and 1984 01:24:56,350 --> 01:24:53,300 I'm the same way I saw something back in 1985 01:24:58,870 --> 01:24:56,360 the very late 60s I know what I saw I 1986 01:25:00,430 --> 01:24:58,880 know what it wasn't I you know I don't 1987 01:25:02,439 --> 01:25:00,440 want to get into it I just 1988 01:25:04,270 --> 01:25:02,449 where does somebody like me goes it 1989 01:25:06,399 --> 01:25:04,280 doesn't want to listen to people who 1990 01:25:08,290 --> 01:25:06,409 claim to be abducted who doesn't want to 1991 01:25:09,790 --> 01:25:08,300 listen to bases on the moon who doesn't 1992 01:25:15,060 --> 01:25:09,800 want to listen to somebody explain how 1993 01:25:18,069 --> 01:25:15,070 Bigfoot is works as a lookout for UFOs 1994 01:25:20,799 --> 01:25:18,079 you know who just wants to listen to the 1995 01:25:24,120 --> 01:25:20,809 cabin days of the world I would say 1996 01:25:26,200 --> 01:25:24,130 don't go to contact in the desert and 1997 01:25:30,970 --> 01:25:26,210 Chris will be talking about that next 1998 01:25:32,589 --> 01:25:30,980 week actually you know man 1999 01:25:34,239 --> 01:25:32,599 you're you're you're sort of pushing the 2000 01:25:36,339 --> 01:25:34,249 quiet here a little bit because I've had 2001 01:25:40,629 --> 01:25:36,349 this conversation on other sort of shows 2002 01:25:44,169 --> 01:25:40,639 and podcasts where I take issue with the 2003 01:25:47,259 --> 01:25:44,179 the cottage industry of sort of the UFO 2004 01:25:50,439 --> 01:25:47,269 conference I understand that people want 2005 01:25:51,569 --> 01:25:50,449 to see sort of the the public figures of 2006 01:25:54,129 --> 01:25:51,579 ufology 2007 01:25:57,009 --> 01:25:54,139 but I get really weary when somebody 2008 01:25:59,709 --> 01:25:57,019 says their UFO expert how can you be an 2009 01:26:01,479 --> 01:25:59,719 expert on something unidentified you 2010 01:26:03,399 --> 01:26:01,489 fundamentally can't be you can be an 2011 01:26:04,989 --> 01:26:03,409 expert in history and you have studied 2012 01:26:08,259 --> 01:26:04,999 the history of UFO settings you know I 2013 01:26:10,509 --> 01:26:08,269 can sort of see that but you can't be 2014 01:26:14,049 --> 01:26:10,519 really an expert on you know flying 2015 01:26:15,370 --> 01:26:14,059 saucers let's say so so I get oh my 2016 01:26:19,120 --> 01:26:15,380 daughter has a boo-boo on her toes all 2017 01:26:21,250 --> 01:26:19,130 right I'm sorry there's it's just chaos 2018 01:26:25,000 --> 01:26:21,260 up there what's going on they're here 2019 01:26:26,620 --> 01:26:25,010 they're here to get me oh you'll have 2020 01:26:29,259 --> 01:26:26,630 missing times to meet your dad is it 2021 01:26:30,879 --> 01:26:29,269 dependable yeah missing time yeah so 2022 01:26:32,919 --> 01:26:30,889 anyway back to you you know I I don't 2023 01:26:34,419 --> 01:26:32,929 know where I can send you I mean 2024 01:26:35,799 --> 01:26:34,429 ultimately I think every sort of UFO 2025 01:26:39,370 --> 01:26:35,809 conference is gonna have its fair share 2026 01:26:42,430 --> 01:26:39,380 of individuals who claim expertise and 2027 01:26:46,330 --> 01:26:42,440 who claim that they have the truth when 2028 01:26:48,910 --> 01:26:46,340 in reality you know we have to be 2029 01:26:51,729 --> 01:26:48,920 careful who we listen to 2030 01:26:52,900 --> 01:26:51,739 and and we have to be careful I think of 2031 01:26:55,300 --> 01:26:52,910 what people say and and and I'd be 2032 01:26:56,590 --> 01:26:55,310 honest as someone who tries to do sort 2033 01:26:58,840 --> 01:26:56,600 of as much legitimate research as 2034 01:27:00,400 --> 01:26:58,850 possible it's really problematic when 2035 01:27:01,930 --> 01:27:00,410 people start making ridiculous claims 2036 01:27:06,310 --> 01:27:01,940 that they can't back up and saying that 2037 01:27:08,140 --> 01:27:06,320 it's real or true I I wish I had a place 2038 01:27:10,360 --> 01:27:08,150 to stand you I wish we could sort of 2039 01:27:12,550 --> 01:27:10,370 bring back some more traditional 2040 01:27:15,510 --> 01:27:12,560 conferences that that sort of hovered 2041 01:27:18,459 --> 01:27:15,520 more around having to provide citations 2042 01:27:24,010 --> 01:27:18,469 versus just you know talking about your 2043 01:27:25,720 --> 01:27:24,020 but yeah I mean it Martin I mean then do 2044 01:27:28,600 --> 01:27:25,730 you know anybody who's ever explored 2045 01:27:31,090 --> 01:27:28,610 actually carving off a section of 2046 01:27:35,640 --> 01:27:31,100 ufology that's just really kind of the 2047 01:27:40,419 --> 01:27:35,650 more that the Kevin days of the world 2048 01:27:43,419 --> 01:27:40,429 yeah there's a there's I'm gonna ask you 2049 01:27:45,220 --> 01:27:43,429 to email me there is a guy that has 2050 01:27:48,959 --> 01:27:45,230 started a group and there's a few out 2051 01:27:53,320 --> 01:27:48,969 there that have tried to initiate groups 2052 01:27:55,870 --> 01:27:53,330 that are really balanced and try to look 2053 01:27:57,640 --> 01:27:55,880 at things scientifically so I just I 2054 01:27:59,620 --> 01:27:57,650 can't say it off the top of my head but 2055 01:28:01,510 --> 01:27:59,630 it's the there's a no one as one is 2056 01:28:03,760 --> 01:28:01,520 called scu I think it's a scientific 2057 01:28:06,040 --> 01:28:03,770 coalition for you fall yeah thank you 2058 01:28:08,590 --> 01:28:06,050 yeah is that Robert Powell who started 2059 01:28:10,600 --> 01:28:08,600 that and he's got a lot of yeah there's 2060 01:28:13,450 --> 01:28:10,610 a lot of I would say sort of PhDs and 2061 01:28:15,580 --> 01:28:13,460 and experts sort of in in their 2062 01:28:19,209 --> 01:28:15,590 respective fields a lot of guys out of 2063 01:28:21,400 --> 01:28:19,219 the military for sure also involved all 2064 01:28:23,439 --> 01:28:21,410 right so so yeah if you saw just google 2065 01:28:24,790 --> 01:28:23,449 the scientific coalition scientific 2066 01:28:27,189 --> 01:28:24,800 coalition up for you followed you're 2067 01:28:28,479 --> 01:28:27,199 saying like that's very close yeah SCU 2068 01:28:30,580 --> 01:28:28,489 yeah if you just you know if you just 2069 01:28:33,130 --> 01:28:30,590 google like SCU and then Robert Powell 2070 01:28:35,020 --> 01:28:33,140 you know find it and they're sort of 2071 01:28:36,400 --> 01:28:35,030 putting it all together right now I 2072 01:28:38,530 --> 01:28:36,410 think they're still in their sort of 2073 01:28:41,640 --> 01:28:38,540 infant stages still but they're 2074 01:28:44,140 --> 01:28:41,650 definitely sort of one of those groups 2075 01:28:48,340 --> 01:28:44,150 that you could probably even email and 2076 01:28:51,340 --> 01:28:48,350 and and get involved with yeah it's it's 2077 01:28:53,490 --> 01:28:51,350 time fine sorry yeah all right all right 2078 01:28:56,590 --> 01:28:53,500 thank you I it's a really good topic 2079 01:28:59,320 --> 01:28:56,600 it's a shame that that you ecology 2080 01:29:04,229 --> 01:28:59,330 doesn't do a better job of I think it 2081 01:29:08,759 --> 01:29:05,729 well Steven thank you so much I really 2082 01:29:10,589 --> 01:29:08,769 appreciate the call yep thanks guys 2083 01:29:12,120 --> 01:29:10,599 all right have a good night and we have 2084 01:29:13,709 --> 01:29:12,130 another caller just called in 2085 01:29:16,890 --> 01:29:13,719 what's your name your first name and 2086 01:29:19,589 --> 01:29:16,900 where you calling from I just Ronald 2087 01:29:20,069 --> 01:29:19,599 from Minnesota hi Ronald thanks for the 2088 01:29:22,819 --> 01:29:20,079 call 2089 01:29:26,430 --> 01:29:22,829 do you have a question for our yes I 2090 01:29:27,750 --> 01:29:26,440 yeah thank you for your tow tonight 2091 01:29:38,040 --> 01:29:27,760 first of all I wanted to say thank you 2092 01:29:45,750 --> 01:29:41,370 thank you for the information and um I I 2093 01:29:49,799 --> 01:29:45,760 think there's always a good dose of 2094 01:29:54,000 --> 01:29:49,809 skepticism that we must kind of keep 2095 01:29:58,709 --> 01:29:54,010 active in order to keep our sanity about 2096 01:30:00,060 --> 01:29:58,719 us I think that when we see a light in 2097 01:30:04,700 --> 01:30:00,070 the sky for instance is not 2098 01:30:06,529 --> 01:30:04,710 automatically UFO first I think 2099 01:30:08,100 --> 01:30:06,539 establishment airplane or helicopter 2100 01:30:11,430 --> 01:30:08,110 something like that 2101 01:30:15,750 --> 01:30:11,440 it's rage that looks good not those you 2102 01:30:19,080 --> 01:30:15,760 know so but I met a couple of MUFON 2103 01:30:21,959 --> 01:30:19,090 people last month and in May when I went 2104 01:30:24,390 --> 01:30:21,969 to go up vision for the Pine Bush event 2105 01:30:28,589 --> 01:30:24,400 that didn't happen when we had the air 2106 01:30:33,149 --> 01:30:28,599 tornadoes and I I got me to MUFON 2107 01:30:35,129 --> 01:30:33,159 people there and they were very sincere 2108 01:30:37,700 --> 01:30:35,139 about what they've really been and they 2109 01:30:40,319 --> 01:30:37,710 weren't pushing anything about you 2110 01:30:44,040 --> 01:30:40,329 apologizing 2111 01:30:48,810 --> 01:30:44,050 one is Mark Dantonio he's more of a 2112 01:30:52,859 --> 01:30:48,820 science guy right and he researches from 2113 01:30:54,479 --> 01:30:52,869 a science when if you if he does see 2114 01:30:57,419 --> 01:30:54,489 something strange then he tries to 2115 01:31:01,859 --> 01:30:57,429 evaluate it and he has explained that 2116 01:31:04,169 --> 01:31:01,869 several times and I appreciate what 2117 01:31:06,750 --> 01:31:04,179 Woody's what he has shared on that 2118 01:31:11,129 --> 01:31:06,760 weekend and things like that and then 2119 01:31:15,920 --> 01:31:11,139 yeah Eric he's a Massachusetts MUFON 2120 01:31:19,550 --> 01:31:15,930 director another interesting person 2121 01:31:23,140 --> 01:31:19,560 and I I think he since hearing about 2122 01:31:26,060 --> 01:31:23,150 what he's saying and what he talks about 2123 01:31:28,580 --> 01:31:26,070 so the question that I have is that you 2124 01:31:30,680 --> 01:31:28,590 were talking about a percentage of of 2125 01:31:34,100 --> 01:31:30,690 people that might not be truthful or 2126 01:31:38,740 --> 01:31:34,110 honest or or kind of skeptical in some 2127 01:31:42,020 --> 01:31:38,750 ways how can you put a percentage on on 2128 01:31:43,100 --> 01:31:42,030 on a group of people and may or may not 2129 01:31:44,780 --> 01:31:43,110 be telling the truth 2130 01:31:49,670 --> 01:31:44,790 but if they are telling the truth and 2131 01:31:52,790 --> 01:31:49,680 then you shouldn't be evaluated on our 2132 01:31:55,490 --> 01:31:52,800 own level person try to try to perceive 2133 01:31:58,250 --> 01:31:55,500 you know on our own own understanding 2134 01:32:01,189 --> 01:31:58,260 whether or not it's a fact or fiction or 2135 01:32:04,640 --> 01:32:01,199 whatever not good and take the call I 2136 01:32:08,650 --> 01:32:04,650 don't take the answer off the air I'm 2137 01:32:11,209 --> 01:32:08,660 thinking for the call thanks Ronald yeah 2138 01:32:14,720 --> 01:32:11,219 yeah thanks very much for the question 2139 01:32:16,189 --> 01:32:14,730 and yeah and you know maybe I I you know 2140 01:32:18,380 --> 01:32:16,199 my foot in my mouth here a little bit I 2141 01:32:20,990 --> 01:32:18,390 said fifty percent and maybe you know 2142 01:32:24,950 --> 01:32:21,000 that's an accurate number maybe it's a 2143 01:32:27,950 --> 01:32:24,960 little high but I think take a lot of 2144 01:32:30,410 --> 01:32:27,960 heat over the fifty percent I think I 2145 01:32:31,640 --> 01:32:30,420 think you know the last caller sort of 2146 01:32:33,050 --> 01:32:31,650 made a good point I think there's a lot 2147 01:32:36,340 --> 01:32:33,060 I'm not saying that every single person 2148 01:32:38,360 --> 01:32:36,350 who lectures at a conference is you know 2149 01:32:42,140 --> 01:32:38,370 fraudulent or or is trying to sell you 2150 01:32:43,310 --> 01:32:42,150 something but I think that there like I 2151 01:32:45,590 --> 01:32:43,320 said there is a bit of a cottage 2152 01:32:46,729 --> 01:32:45,600 industry here I think that you know you 2153 01:32:49,670 --> 01:32:46,739 can sort of there's a bit of a litmus 2154 01:32:53,050 --> 01:32:49,680 test you can sort of do in regards to 2155 01:32:55,790 --> 01:32:53,060 whether someone is going to be sort of a 2156 01:32:56,900 --> 01:32:55,800 legitimate research or let's say versus 2157 01:32:59,360 --> 01:32:56,910 someone who just wants to sell you 2158 01:33:02,060 --> 01:32:59,370 something I think if they're claiming to 2159 01:33:03,200 --> 01:33:02,070 be an expert in something versus saying 2160 01:33:06,470 --> 01:33:03,210 you know we don't really know what's 2161 01:33:09,979 --> 01:33:06,480 going on usually the guys who sell books 2162 01:33:11,810 --> 01:33:09,989 and sell air time on on Gayo or whatever 2163 01:33:13,970 --> 01:33:11,820 they're the ones who say this is the 2164 01:33:14,560 --> 01:33:13,980 truth and and here you go I'm telling 2165 01:33:16,970 --> 01:33:14,570 you the truth 2166 01:33:19,370 --> 01:33:16,980 meanwhile if you ask for sort of any 2167 01:33:22,310 --> 01:33:19,380 evidence they won't be able to provide 2168 01:33:23,630 --> 01:33:22,320 it or they'll dodge the question so I 2169 01:33:25,970 --> 01:33:23,640 think that's one I think the second 2170 01:33:27,250 --> 01:33:25,980 thing is is if they are you know 2171 01:33:29,600 --> 01:33:27,260 obviously trying to sell you something 2172 01:33:31,550 --> 01:33:29,610 in regards to you know 2173 01:33:34,070 --> 01:33:31,560 constantly writing sort of books that 2174 01:33:36,650 --> 01:33:34,080 are sort of not fact checked or not 2175 01:33:37,880 --> 01:33:36,660 cited and it's just their ideas and 2176 01:33:40,670 --> 01:33:37,890 again they're sort of selling it as 2177 01:33:43,850 --> 01:33:40,680 truth I think you sort of need to be 2178 01:33:48,580 --> 01:33:43,860 cautious and critical I think at the end 2179 01:33:53,000 --> 01:33:48,590 of the day I think at the end of the day 2180 01:33:54,560 --> 01:33:53,010 we need to be just critically minded in 2181 01:33:56,960 --> 01:33:54,570 general in regards to the people who 2182 01:33:58,940 --> 01:33:56,970 speak at UFO conferences I think that a 2183 01:34:00,290 --> 01:33:58,950 lot of them are great and I think that a 2184 01:34:02,150 --> 01:34:00,300 lot of them are legitimate Marc Dantonio 2185 01:34:04,760 --> 01:34:02,160 is a great example I think he's in he's 2186 01:34:07,910 --> 01:34:04,770 an excellent researcher and and his 2187 01:34:10,130 --> 01:34:07,920 books are terrific but he doesn't walk 2188 01:34:11,660 --> 01:34:10,140 her around telling you this is what's 2189 01:34:13,940 --> 01:34:11,670 happening and this is the truth and this 2190 01:34:17,360 --> 01:34:13,950 is what's going on with UFO phenomenon 2191 01:34:19,640 --> 01:34:17,370 100% I know you know send me your money 2192 01:34:21,410 --> 01:34:19,650 he doesn't do that he like the caller 2193 01:34:24,380 --> 01:34:21,420 said sort of presents as evidence and 2194 01:34:26,960 --> 01:34:24,390 says you know apart from this evidence I 2195 01:34:29,540 --> 01:34:26,970 that's all I got you know whether you 2196 01:34:32,870 --> 01:34:29,550 you choose to accept it or not is up to 2197 01:34:34,970 --> 01:34:32,880 you but here's my data I think that's 2198 01:34:38,900 --> 01:34:34,980 the sign of a good researcher versus 2199 01:34:41,090 --> 01:34:38,910 someone who says for example here a lip 2200 01:34:43,640 --> 01:34:41,100 here is a list of the following songs 2201 01:34:45,590 --> 01:34:43,650 and musical artists who had those songs 2202 01:34:48,620 --> 01:34:45,600 downloaded into their heads by alien 2203 01:34:50,750 --> 01:34:48,630 intelligences then offers no evidence to 2204 01:34:53,720 --> 01:34:50,760 support that apart from the fact that 2205 01:34:56,090 --> 01:34:53,730 some of the lyrics and the songs might 2206 01:35:00,050 --> 01:34:56,100 you know if you really stretched it 2207 01:35:02,780 --> 01:35:00,060 could be interpreted as you know a UFO 2208 01:35:04,040 --> 01:35:02,790 or abduction case I'm speaking here 2209 01:35:08,000 --> 01:35:04,050 particular to grant Cameron's most 2210 01:35:10,580 --> 01:35:08,010 recent book where he makes claims of a 2211 01:35:12,920 --> 01:35:10,590 whole bunch of musical artists having 2212 01:35:15,500 --> 01:35:12,930 songs downloaded from alien 2213 01:35:17,120 --> 01:35:15,510 intelligences again I find this a little 2214 01:35:18,590 --> 01:35:17,130 dubious because at the end of the day he 2215 01:35:19,790 --> 01:35:18,600 can't back up any of his claims but he's 2216 01:35:22,220 --> 01:35:19,800 making a truth claim here he's saying 2217 01:35:24,140 --> 01:35:22,230 this is what happened I actually have 2218 01:35:26,240 --> 01:35:24,150 people have gotten hold of me that 2219 01:35:28,960 --> 01:35:26,250 wanted to be on my show and talked about 2220 01:35:31,370 --> 01:35:28,970 that that are saying you know that's 2221 01:35:34,040 --> 01:35:31,380 that's their truth you know the type of 2222 01:35:38,870 --> 01:35:34,050 thing yeah and and and you know again 2223 01:35:42,320 --> 01:35:38,880 yeah maybe they are right like maybe the 2224 01:35:43,490 --> 01:35:42,330 Beatles you know did have their their 2225 01:35:45,350 --> 01:35:43,500 music download 2226 01:35:48,080 --> 01:35:45,360 into their brain by an alien 2227 01:35:52,390 --> 01:35:48,090 intelligence is good yeah this could 2228 01:35:54,890 --> 01:35:52,400 really be the case but again we can't 2229 01:35:57,200 --> 01:35:54,900 make a truth claim about that without 2230 01:35:59,720 --> 01:35:57,210 any evidence to support that truth claim 2231 01:36:02,810 --> 01:35:59,730 we would need something that proves that 2232 01:36:05,450 --> 01:36:02,820 to be the case and I take issue when 2233 01:36:07,150 --> 01:36:05,460 somebody says that is the case but when 2234 01:36:10,220 --> 01:36:07,160 asked for evidence does not provide it 2235 01:36:12,980 --> 01:36:10,230 how how do you know that the Beatles had 2236 01:36:14,840 --> 01:36:12,990 these songs downloaded then simply 2237 01:36:16,280 --> 01:36:14,850 showing me you know the song Lucy in the 2238 01:36:17,780 --> 01:36:16,290 Sky with Diamonds and you know well 2239 01:36:23,720 --> 01:36:17,790 there's lights in it this is clearly a 2240 01:36:26,600 --> 01:36:23,730 UFO experience you know about LSD that 2241 01:36:28,400 --> 01:36:26,610 was about LSD yeah of course but you 2242 01:36:30,110 --> 01:36:28,410 know at the end of the day if we need to 2243 01:36:32,780 --> 01:36:30,120 sell books and we need to pump out books 2244 01:36:35,120 --> 01:36:32,790 quickly if we don't need to cite or 2245 01:36:37,970 --> 01:36:35,130 provide evidence hell I can write 2246 01:36:39,860 --> 01:36:37,980 whatever that whatever I want right yeah 2247 01:36:42,980 --> 01:36:39,870 well that's interesting so the lines 2248 01:36:45,680 --> 01:36:42,990 open if anyone wants to give a call so I 2249 01:36:47,720 --> 01:36:45,690 I I like the way this is going but 2250 01:36:51,200 --> 01:36:47,730 Jordan Bonaparte that was on earlier 2251 01:36:55,730 --> 01:36:51,210 said boy you really stepped into it and 2252 01:37:00,650 --> 01:36:55,740 I sure did yeah yeah and no it's okay I 2253 01:37:03,440 --> 01:37:00,660 I think you know you're making a really 2254 01:37:06,740 --> 01:37:03,450 good point here and that is that if 2255 01:37:09,410 --> 01:37:06,750 anyone out there says they have an 2256 01:37:11,750 --> 01:37:09,420 answer that's the one you know that's 2257 01:37:14,180 --> 01:37:11,760 that's a red flag if someone's gonna say 2258 01:37:17,900 --> 01:37:14,190 they have the answer because no one's so 2259 01:37:20,450 --> 01:37:17,910 so far no one has the answer and so you 2260 01:37:22,700 --> 01:37:20,460 if you hear that and you're listening to 2261 01:37:24,530 --> 01:37:22,710 the show and you you're interested in 2262 01:37:27,680 --> 01:37:24,540 what if someone has to say I would not 2263 01:37:29,600 --> 01:37:27,690 really listen to that I think if they 2264 01:37:31,490 --> 01:37:29,610 approached it with an I don't know but 2265 01:37:34,580 --> 01:37:31,500 if they approached it by saying I'm 2266 01:37:37,130 --> 01:37:34,590 gonna speculate here or I don't know or 2267 01:37:39,740 --> 01:37:37,140 this is just a theory or a hypothesis 2268 01:37:41,300 --> 01:37:39,750 yeah you can listen to rate sure spec 2269 01:37:42,770 --> 01:37:41,310 speculations amazing like it's like my 2270 01:37:44,500 --> 01:37:42,780 favorite thing to do I have a philosophy 2271 01:37:47,540 --> 01:37:44,510 background so like all I do is speculate 2272 01:37:49,820 --> 01:37:47,550 but I never say that this is 100% how 2273 01:37:54,080 --> 01:37:49,830 the universe or the world or I function 2274 01:37:55,940 --> 01:37:54,090 because I don't know you know again and 2275 01:37:57,140 --> 01:37:55,950 you can't really blame the conference's 2276 01:37:59,210 --> 01:37:57,150 necessarily because I also want 2277 01:38:01,400 --> 01:37:59,220 stand as a conference organizer I have 2278 01:38:04,640 --> 01:38:01,410 to put you know butts in seats 2279 01:38:07,670 --> 01:38:04,650 you know alien con just happened contact 2280 01:38:09,650 --> 01:38:07,680 in the desert is coming up I believe as 2281 01:38:12,410 --> 01:38:09,660 well as all the other UFO conferences I 2282 01:38:14,540 --> 01:38:12,420 mean you need to sell tickets and at the 2283 01:38:17,150 --> 01:38:14,550 end of the day if the quarry Goods and 2284 01:38:19,460 --> 01:38:17,160 the David Wilcock and and the grand 2285 01:38:21,350 --> 01:38:19,470 cameron's and and now that I want to 2286 01:38:24,050 --> 01:38:21,360 lump those in the same pile but you know 2287 01:38:26,780 --> 01:38:24,060 if you the the Georges two closest if 2288 01:38:28,130 --> 01:38:26,790 they're the ones who sell tickets and 2289 01:38:30,500 --> 01:38:28,140 you got to put you know food on the 2290 01:38:32,810 --> 01:38:30,510 table I get that that you know that's 2291 01:38:34,760 --> 01:38:32,820 part of that subculture as well that 2292 01:38:36,230 --> 01:38:34,770 does that conference culture of we got a 2293 01:38:37,850 --> 01:38:36,240 kind of what do we what are we doing 2294 01:38:39,590 --> 01:38:37,860 here right are we talking about 2295 01:38:41,870 --> 01:38:39,600 ufology are we gonna try and do and 2296 01:38:44,930 --> 01:38:41,880 present legitimate research or are we 2297 01:38:46,640 --> 01:38:44,940 gonna have a bit of a show brand you 2298 01:38:47,990 --> 01:38:46,650 need to walk a fine line there sometimes 2299 01:38:49,220 --> 01:38:48,000 may be especially if you want to have a 2300 01:38:51,890 --> 01:38:49,230 successful conference that happens again 2301 01:38:53,810 --> 01:38:51,900 yeah I'll talk to you about a conference 2302 01:38:56,960 --> 01:38:53,820 after we had talked to this caller 2303 01:38:57,980 --> 01:38:56,970 caller thanks for calling us and tell us 2304 01:39:02,660 --> 01:38:57,990 your first name and where are you 2305 01:39:06,860 --> 01:39:02,670 calling from please Jim from British 2306 01:39:11,750 --> 01:39:06,870 Columbia hi Jay how are you it's a 2307 01:39:16,370 --> 01:39:11,760 Canadian show span yes yeah hello Ben 2308 01:39:18,260 --> 01:39:16,380 yes yeah you're very smart guy I'm a 2309 01:39:20,960 --> 01:39:18,270 smart guy too so I can tell how's it now 2310 01:39:23,360 --> 01:39:20,970 you're a very intelligent guy I have to 2311 01:39:26,270 --> 01:39:23,370 know have you had your own experiences 2312 01:39:29,210 --> 01:39:26,280 any paranormal experiences at all yeah 2313 01:39:30,800 --> 01:39:29,220 on you know whether I say fortunately or 2314 01:39:33,140 --> 01:39:30,810 unfortunately I have never had a 2315 01:39:35,240 --> 01:39:33,150 paranormal experience that that I can't 2316 01:39:37,840 --> 01:39:35,250 sort of in my mind rationalize or 2317 01:39:41,420 --> 01:39:37,850 explain away and I I did have I think 2318 01:39:44,030 --> 01:39:41,430 what could be described maybe as a an 2319 01:39:48,290 --> 01:39:44,040 experience with we could maybe say a 2320 01:39:51,080 --> 01:39:48,300 ghost however I can sort of sit back and 2321 01:39:52,700 --> 01:39:51,090 think about it and I can like I said 2322 01:39:55,180 --> 01:39:52,710 rationalize it a little bit that maybe I 2323 01:39:57,290 --> 01:39:55,190 was mistaken so it wasn't such an 2324 01:40:02,390 --> 01:39:57,300 experience that altered my life let's 2325 01:40:04,670 --> 01:40:02,400 put it that way okay yeah so yeah I'm an 2326 01:40:06,710 --> 01:40:04,680 objective observer I used to train other 2327 01:40:08,750 --> 01:40:06,720 people to be objective observers because 2328 01:40:10,370 --> 01:40:08,760 I worked as an engineer I've done 2329 01:40:12,830 --> 01:40:10,380 science for living and 2330 01:40:16,629 --> 01:40:12,840 things like that so I'm very objective 2331 01:40:19,430 --> 01:40:16,639 but sometimes maybe I've had about ten 2332 01:40:20,629 --> 01:40:19,440 extreme paranormal experiences in my 2333 01:40:23,899 --> 01:40:20,639 life 2334 01:40:26,810 --> 01:40:23,909 once I saw two UFOs I was with another 2335 01:40:29,300 --> 01:40:26,820 person she saw them first she said they 2336 01:40:31,160 --> 01:40:29,310 were UFOs I looked at them and I could 2337 01:40:34,280 --> 01:40:31,170 not figure what they were but under 2338 01:40:37,390 --> 01:40:34,290 later investigation what I saw fit the 2339 01:40:40,610 --> 01:40:37,400 descriptions that many many other people 2340 01:40:43,939 --> 01:40:40,620 supply including well what I saw were 2341 01:40:48,500 --> 01:40:43,949 the we call them the the Foo Fighters of 2342 01:40:51,379 --> 01:40:48,510 ww2 and I knew a guy who was a pilot of 2343 01:40:55,070 --> 01:40:51,389 a plane in World War two and he saw Foo 2344 01:40:58,490 --> 01:40:55,080 Fighters doing so okay so so I use the 2345 01:41:00,470 --> 01:40:58,500 best methodology and I know methodology 2346 01:41:02,450 --> 01:41:00,480 actually I lecture on methodology I use 2347 01:41:04,459 --> 01:41:02,460 the best methodology and I can explain 2348 01:41:06,290 --> 01:41:04,469 these things away and other things I've 2349 01:41:08,510 --> 01:41:06,300 done for example ie shape-shifted into a 2350 01:41:10,250 --> 01:41:08,520 bear one day and things like that and 2351 01:41:11,720 --> 01:41:10,260 I've been tested I'm not on drugs I've 2352 01:41:16,250 --> 01:41:11,730 been tested I'm saying etcetera etcetera 2353 01:41:17,810 --> 01:41:16,260 right so okay I really I find I talk to 2354 01:41:20,479 --> 01:41:17,820 a lot of people about the paranormal and 2355 01:41:22,010 --> 01:41:20,489 I can really only get into it with a 2356 01:41:26,240 --> 01:41:22,020 person who has had the paranormal 2357 01:41:27,770 --> 01:41:26,250 experiences really and those people I 2358 01:41:31,160 --> 01:41:27,780 judge them one at a time and sometimes 2359 01:41:34,610 --> 01:41:31,170 they're mentally ill or they're on drugs 2360 01:41:37,760 --> 01:41:34,620 or something like that so I have to read 2361 01:41:39,950 --> 01:41:37,770 those ones out but you know a person 2362 01:41:42,740 --> 01:41:39,960 like Martin has had his own paranormal 2363 01:41:44,479 --> 01:41:42,750 experience so I listened to him you know 2364 01:41:50,180 --> 01:41:44,489 and I know he's going to listen to me 2365 01:41:53,030 --> 01:41:50,190 right and and Milazzo fee psychology all 2366 01:41:54,800 --> 01:41:53,040 mixed together yeah and it it seems that 2367 01:41:56,990 --> 01:41:54,810 a person has to have their own 2368 01:42:01,189 --> 01:41:57,000 paranormal experience and I'll tell you 2369 01:42:03,620 --> 01:42:01,199 one more thing Ben yes Ben yes there is 2370 01:42:05,060 --> 01:42:03,630 a top physicist in the world today he's 2371 01:42:07,459 --> 01:42:05,070 one of the top five theoretical 2372 01:42:10,490 --> 01:42:07,469 physicists and he says his own words are 2373 01:42:13,760 --> 01:42:10,500 quote not all the universe is accessible 2374 01:42:15,590 --> 01:42:13,770 by the scientific method period and I 2375 01:42:15,860 --> 01:42:15,600 agree with them I know what he's talking 2376 01:42:19,220 --> 01:42:15,870 about 2377 01:42:23,030 --> 01:42:19,230 it's you know we we humans we don't even 2378 01:42:24,109 --> 01:42:23,040 understand time we we are we are very 2379 01:42:26,000 --> 01:42:24,119 limited mentally 2380 01:42:28,159 --> 01:42:26,010 think so when you look at the universe 2381 01:42:30,500 --> 01:42:28,169 we are all of our science put together 2382 01:42:33,169 --> 01:42:30,510 is not everything that there is there's 2383 01:42:37,069 --> 01:42:33,179 much beyond science you know and so 2384 01:42:38,989 --> 01:42:37,079 anyway I should shut up now yeah no I 2385 01:42:41,449 --> 01:42:38,999 mean I really appreciate your call I 2386 01:42:43,609 --> 01:42:41,459 think I think you're right I honestly do 2387 01:42:46,489 --> 01:42:43,619 and in certain things I agree with you 2388 01:42:49,580 --> 01:42:46,499 that the scientific method is not enough 2389 01:42:51,500 --> 01:42:49,590 to to be I guess the ultimate arbiter of 2390 01:42:53,209 --> 01:42:51,510 truth like a knowledge I agree with you 2391 01:42:56,060 --> 01:42:53,219 I think that there is a lot of ways to 2392 01:42:59,000 --> 01:42:56,070 access information and science is one 2393 01:43:01,129 --> 01:42:59,010 Avenue an important Avenue but it's one 2394 01:43:02,379 --> 01:43:01,139 Avenue among many so I agree with you 2395 01:43:05,810 --> 01:43:02,389 there 2396 01:43:09,020 --> 01:43:05,820 in regards to the having sorry you just 2397 01:43:11,000 --> 01:43:09,030 want to jump in there yeah well you see 2398 01:43:14,560 --> 01:43:11,010 science is my main paradigm it always 2399 01:43:18,649 --> 01:43:14,570 has been but then I started discovering 2400 01:43:20,119 --> 01:43:18,659 the reality of the native peoples 2401 01:43:22,699 --> 01:43:20,129 paradigm these are the indigenous 2402 01:43:24,770 --> 01:43:22,709 peoples of the world the Bushmen of the 2403 01:43:27,589 --> 01:43:24,780 Kalahari the native people where I live 2404 01:43:31,790 --> 01:43:27,599 here I'm connected to them and the Inuit 2405 01:43:33,500 --> 01:43:31,800 and all these people and I have 2406 01:43:36,500 --> 01:43:33,510 experienced their paradigm as well 2407 01:43:38,989 --> 01:43:36,510 that's right their paradigm is totally 2408 01:43:41,179 --> 01:43:38,999 valid tested for thousands of years they 2409 01:43:43,159 --> 01:43:41,189 work for them it's so it's a totally 2410 01:43:46,659 --> 01:43:43,169 valid way of looking at the universe and 2411 01:43:50,689 --> 01:43:46,669 many of my paranormal experiences are 2412 01:43:52,459 --> 01:43:50,699 explained by the paradigms of these what 2413 01:43:55,250 --> 01:43:52,469 I call the prewriting people or the 2414 01:43:59,119 --> 01:43:55,260 people who only had oral tradition for 2415 01:44:01,520 --> 01:43:59,129 their continuation of knowledge yeah I 2416 01:44:03,589 --> 01:44:01,530 actually it's funny I do feature in the 2417 01:44:04,939 --> 01:44:03,599 book that I'm writing this is maybe this 2418 01:44:07,429 --> 01:44:04,949 ties back to what Martin our time would 2419 01:44:09,979 --> 01:44:07,439 sort of earlier in the show but you know 2420 01:44:12,139 --> 01:44:09,989 the problem is in regards to the UFO 2421 01:44:14,689 --> 01:44:12,149 subculture is is you have often other 2422 01:44:16,639 --> 01:44:14,699 paranormal aspects that tie into the UFO 2423 01:44:19,790 --> 01:44:16,649 phenomena and then how do you you know 2424 01:44:22,729 --> 01:44:19,800 can you parse them out or do you have to 2425 01:44:24,080 --> 01:44:22,739 include them so in my area where I am M 2426 01:44:27,290 --> 01:44:24,090 in Manitoba 2427 01:44:31,060 --> 01:44:27,300 the the Wendigo legend among the local 2428 01:44:33,619 --> 01:44:31,070 Ojibwe and Cree people here is huge and 2429 01:44:35,689 --> 01:44:33,629 I've I've investigated one or two 2430 01:44:36,830 --> 01:44:35,699 Wendigo sightings not that you can 2431 01:44:37,350 --> 01:44:36,840 really investigate those you just sort 2432 01:44:40,470 --> 01:44:37,360 of talk to the 2433 01:44:43,730 --> 01:44:40,480 this is but I do feature one in my book 2434 01:44:46,290 --> 01:44:43,740 of a gentleman who who I guess 2435 01:44:49,800 --> 01:44:46,300 interacted or well he was driving in his 2436 01:44:51,660 --> 01:44:49,810 car with this sort of creature that is 2437 01:44:54,690 --> 01:44:51,670 based upon sort of indigenous legend in 2438 01:44:57,120 --> 01:44:54,700 the area so yeah I agree you know I 2439 01:45:00,720 --> 01:44:57,130 can't say his event didn't happen I 2440 01:45:02,460 --> 01:45:00,730 wasn't in the car with him and and 2441 01:45:04,350 --> 01:45:02,470 ultimately you know I believe his story 2442 01:45:06,270 --> 01:45:04,360 because I think he's still sort of 2443 01:45:09,810 --> 01:45:06,280 pretty shook up about it years after it 2444 01:45:10,860 --> 01:45:09,820 occurred so so you know I I don't think 2445 01:45:12,600 --> 01:45:10,870 you know there's there's much 2446 01:45:13,620 --> 01:45:12,610 disagreement between us I think where I 2447 01:45:15,800 --> 01:45:13,630 do disagree with you a little bit though 2448 01:45:18,330 --> 01:45:15,810 is is the fact that you know for me to 2449 01:45:22,350 --> 01:45:18,340 maybe understand perhaps but for me to 2450 01:45:24,630 --> 01:45:22,360 sort of listen and and be and be able to 2451 01:45:26,400 --> 01:45:24,640 have discourse with with sort of other 2452 01:45:29,190 --> 01:45:26,410 people is that I have to have my own 2453 01:45:31,500 --> 01:45:29,200 experience I had this conversation with 2454 01:45:33,270 --> 01:45:31,510 Ryan Sprague on his show somewhere in 2455 01:45:34,920 --> 01:45:33,280 the skies and and we I sort of asked him 2456 01:45:36,840 --> 01:45:34,930 you know as someone who has had a UFO 2457 01:45:39,300 --> 01:45:36,850 experience and and and myself someone 2458 01:45:41,160 --> 01:45:39,310 who is not you know can we talk about 2459 01:45:44,100 --> 01:45:41,170 the same things can we sort of exist on 2460 01:45:45,630 --> 01:45:44,110 the same level or does the UFO witness 2461 01:45:47,550 --> 01:45:45,640 or does the experience or does sort of 2462 01:45:48,660 --> 01:45:47,560 the the person who's had experiences are 2463 01:45:51,270 --> 01:45:48,670 they sort of in a privileged position 2464 01:45:54,300 --> 01:45:51,280 here and he said you know he doesn't 2465 01:45:55,740 --> 01:45:54,310 think so and again we can maybe debate 2466 01:45:57,480 --> 01:45:55,750 that idea you know is there sort of a 2467 01:45:59,520 --> 01:45:57,490 privileged position in the UFO 2468 01:46:02,480 --> 01:45:59,530 subculture and you feel community for 2469 01:46:06,420 --> 01:46:02,490 individuals who have had experiences 2470 01:46:09,410 --> 01:46:06,430 yeah well in the in the UFOs here I like 2471 01:46:14,370 --> 01:46:09,420 I've only seen had one sighting of UFOs 2472 01:46:17,070 --> 01:46:14,380 but I can see that everybody speculates 2473 01:46:19,200 --> 01:46:17,080 right yeah Linda Moulton Howe speculates 2474 01:46:21,270 --> 01:46:19,210 in one direction and then that other guy 2475 01:46:23,310 --> 01:46:21,280 Dolan he speculates off in a different 2476 01:46:26,190 --> 01:46:23,320 direction right and you can see that 2477 01:46:28,500 --> 01:46:26,200 their speculations come from there their 2478 01:46:30,660 --> 01:46:28,510 preconceived well their paradigms their 2479 01:46:33,120 --> 01:46:30,670 preconceived set of ideas about things 2480 01:46:35,640 --> 01:46:33,130 and I and then from that I see that oh I 2481 01:46:37,230 --> 01:46:35,650 have my own preconceived ideas too right 2482 01:46:40,020 --> 01:46:37,240 so I think it's important for the 2483 01:46:41,640 --> 01:46:40,030 individual to advance philosophically I 2484 01:46:45,060 --> 01:46:41,650 think it's important for the individual 2485 01:46:48,390 --> 01:46:45,070 to know their own paradigm you know and 2486 01:46:50,250 --> 01:46:48,400 I'm I was a science guy Oh totally man 2487 01:46:50,849 --> 01:46:50,260 totally trained and experienced in 2488 01:46:54,319 --> 01:46:50,859 scientist 2489 01:46:57,079 --> 01:46:54,329 but I discovered for myself a cheap 2490 01:47:01,020 --> 01:46:57,089 there that's not all there is so I 2491 01:47:02,819 --> 01:47:01,030 philosophically I say we don't know we 2492 01:47:03,810 --> 01:47:02,829 just don't know work you know there's so 2493 01:47:05,790 --> 01:47:03,820 much we don't know 2494 01:47:07,589 --> 01:47:05,800 okay that's how I handle it all 2495 01:47:09,359 --> 01:47:07,599 philosophically I I agree with you 2496 01:47:10,770 --> 01:47:09,369 wholeheartedly that's that's literally 2497 01:47:12,479 --> 01:47:10,780 one of the opening lines in my book or 2498 01:47:14,339 --> 01:47:12,489 is the only line that it starts off with 2499 01:47:16,560 --> 01:47:14,349 you know I have to start from a position 2500 01:47:19,379 --> 01:47:16,570 of I don't know because we definitely 2501 01:47:22,199 --> 01:47:19,389 don't we don't have a lot of time left 2502 01:47:26,790 --> 01:47:22,209 thanks so much for the call Jim thank 2503 01:47:28,139 --> 01:47:26,800 you so one of the things I just wanted 2504 01:47:31,649 --> 01:47:28,149 to mention you know we have just a few 2505 01:47:35,099 --> 01:47:31,659 minutes left is I was at a conference 2506 01:47:40,229 --> 01:47:35,109 where this woman there was a few people 2507 01:47:42,270 --> 01:47:40,239 that claim to be hybrid so you know it's 2508 01:47:45,209 --> 01:47:42,280 kind of like skeptical right from the 2509 01:47:47,040 --> 01:47:45,219 beginning and but then you know this 2510 01:47:50,310 --> 01:47:47,050 woman talked and she got very emotional 2511 01:47:52,199 --> 01:47:50,320 and it was very convincing but then you 2512 01:47:55,139 --> 01:47:52,209 know she showed well here's what I look 2513 01:47:57,419 --> 01:47:55,149 like on their planet and she actually 2514 01:47:59,939 --> 01:47:57,429 held up a piece of paper with a like a 2515 01:48:02,609 --> 01:47:59,949 crayon drawing of an alien and it was 2516 01:48:03,359 --> 01:48:02,619 like wow you know that's that's all you 2517 01:48:07,189 --> 01:48:03,369 got 2518 01:48:09,989 --> 01:48:07,199 I I want to tell you that particular 2519 01:48:13,049 --> 01:48:09,999 talk and and the person that put the 2520 01:48:16,020 --> 01:48:13,059 conference together said he was hesitant 2521 01:48:20,549 --> 01:48:16,030 but he had so much demand for that part 2522 01:48:24,599 --> 01:48:20,559 you know for those people to come on but 2523 01:48:26,729 --> 01:48:24,609 that kind of standing ovation and you 2524 01:48:30,209 --> 01:48:26,739 know I I just couldn't buy it I can't 2525 01:48:32,819 --> 01:48:30,219 couldn't buy any part of it and so is 2526 01:48:36,389 --> 01:48:32,829 that yeah it's so that's an hour you're 2527 01:48:41,759 --> 01:48:36,399 50% right there I think well yeah again 2528 01:48:43,859 --> 01:48:41,769 you know I regret using a number but you 2529 01:48:44,609 --> 01:48:43,869 know this this is sort of a common 2530 01:48:47,819 --> 01:48:44,619 occurrence 2531 01:48:50,669 --> 01:48:47,829 I do UFO conference but also just within 2532 01:48:54,569 --> 01:48:50,679 the subculture in general and and again 2533 01:48:57,659 --> 01:48:54,579 like I have to be cautious maybe she is 2534 01:49:01,919 --> 01:48:57,669 right like maybe that crayon drawing is 2535 01:49:04,800 --> 01:49:01,929 a perfect depiction of her on their 2536 01:49:06,450 --> 01:49:04,810 planet and I don't want to sound glib 2537 01:49:11,010 --> 01:49:06,460 itself not to I don't know some 2538 01:49:12,690 --> 01:49:11,020 equipment so I don't want think 2539 01:49:16,220 --> 01:49:12,700 ultimately I don't want to be judgmental 2540 01:49:21,720 --> 01:49:16,230 um and sometimes it's tough not to me 2541 01:49:23,730 --> 01:49:21,730 but I guess my the one thing I'll say is 2542 01:49:25,230 --> 01:49:23,740 this you know and this sort of was 2543 01:49:26,400 --> 01:49:25,240 touched on in the previous call in 2544 01:49:27,990 --> 01:49:26,410 regards to the sort of time owed is 2545 01:49:31,400 --> 01:49:28,000 science the answer or science is just 2546 01:49:34,560 --> 01:49:31,410 one sort of paradigm and there's many I 2547 01:49:36,900 --> 01:49:34,570 think we one obviously need to remain 2548 01:49:39,450 --> 01:49:36,910 critical and I think we also need to 2549 01:49:41,280 --> 01:49:39,460 also understand that you know while we 2550 01:49:44,460 --> 01:49:41,290 might have issues with science and the 2551 01:49:47,340 --> 01:49:44,470 dogmatism of science and and we might 2552 01:49:50,700 --> 01:49:47,350 have issue with science being sort of 2553 01:49:52,980 --> 01:49:50,710 currently the the leader or the the main 2554 01:49:55,020 --> 01:49:52,990 ideological framework by which we 2555 01:49:57,600 --> 01:49:55,030 understand things and there's 2556 01:50:00,270 --> 01:49:57,610 potentially a whole bunch of others the 2557 01:50:01,890 --> 01:50:00,280 UFO subculture does not necessarily have 2558 01:50:04,770 --> 01:50:01,900 access to some higher truth either 2559 01:50:08,490 --> 01:50:04,780 I think the UFO culture is made up of 2560 01:50:11,970 --> 01:50:08,500 ideology and paradigm and its fair share 2561 01:50:14,790 --> 01:50:11,980 of honesty and truth but it's also a 2562 01:50:19,860 --> 01:50:14,800 fair share of at times a bit of delusion 2563 01:50:22,700 --> 01:50:19,870 and at times a bit of fraud so so the 2564 01:50:24,810 --> 01:50:22,710 UFO subculture sort of functions like 2565 01:50:26,820 --> 01:50:24,820 the rest of the world right there's 2566 01:50:28,950 --> 01:50:26,830 people who will commit fraud in regular 2567 01:50:30,540 --> 01:50:28,960 everyday life there's people who who are 2568 01:50:31,880 --> 01:50:30,550 delusional and regular everyday life and 2569 01:50:34,440 --> 01:50:31,890 there's people who tell the truth in 2570 01:50:36,750 --> 01:50:34,450 regular everyday life so I think we see 2571 01:50:39,000 --> 01:50:36,760 a mirror of that in the UFO subculture I 2572 01:50:42,300 --> 01:50:39,010 think the one difference though is that 2573 01:50:43,860 --> 01:50:42,310 the UFO subculture exists in this 2574 01:50:44,400 --> 01:50:43,870 dualistic realm as I talked about before 2575 01:50:48,000 --> 01:50:44,410 right 2576 01:50:49,530 --> 01:50:48,010 individuals who function in the regular 2577 01:50:51,800 --> 01:50:49,540 everyday but also individuals who 2578 01:50:55,230 --> 01:50:51,810 function in this total separate other 2579 01:50:57,360 --> 01:50:55,240 universe let's say we're we're the 2580 01:50:59,310 --> 01:50:57,370 regular everyday reality is sort of 2581 01:51:01,200 --> 01:50:59,320 meaningless to them or or has some 2582 01:51:03,030 --> 01:51:01,210 meaning but it is really not important 2583 01:51:05,520 --> 01:51:03,040 anymore because their lives have been 2584 01:51:07,440 --> 01:51:05,530 altered drastically by an experience or 2585 01:51:10,950 --> 01:51:07,450 just by engaging with the phenomenon in 2586 01:51:13,050 --> 01:51:10,960 some way I do yeah I realize I was a 2587 01:51:16,170 --> 01:51:13,060 little bit critical but also I do want 2588 01:51:18,060 --> 01:51:16,180 to say that I have no idea what you know 2589 01:51:18,480 --> 01:51:18,070 this woman obviously went through 2590 01:51:21,810 --> 01:51:18,490 something 2591 01:51:23,370 --> 01:51:21,820 very I really really bothered her you 2592 01:51:27,090 --> 01:51:23,380 know I mean like I said she became very 2593 01:51:30,060 --> 01:51:27,100 emotional and so you know and she 2594 01:51:31,680 --> 01:51:30,070 appeared to be talking from the heart so 2595 01:51:34,230 --> 01:51:31,690 something I agree that you know 2596 01:51:36,780 --> 01:51:34,240 something happens I can't I shouldn't 2597 01:51:38,130 --> 01:51:36,790 judge people either you know no it's 2598 01:51:40,650 --> 01:51:38,140 it's tough not you know because 2599 01:51:43,110 --> 01:51:40,660 sometimes they sound totally bonkers 2600 01:51:45,330 --> 01:51:43,120 right like I mean that's also you know 2601 01:51:47,660 --> 01:51:45,340 the reality at times you know people say 2602 01:51:49,830 --> 01:51:47,670 things and you just shake your head and 2603 01:51:51,030 --> 01:51:49,840 if you met this person in real life 2604 01:51:53,220 --> 01:51:51,040 you'd like roll up the window of your 2605 01:51:55,350 --> 01:51:53,230 car and you know drive away as fast as 2606 01:51:56,820 --> 01:51:55,360 you could I think sometimes yeah yeah 2607 01:51:58,830 --> 01:51:56,830 you know we only have a couple of 2608 01:52:03,300 --> 01:51:58,840 minutes left or just like a minute I 2609 01:52:04,890 --> 01:52:03,310 think so listen your book where can you 2610 01:52:06,600 --> 01:52:04,900 have your do you have a website where or 2611 01:52:09,810 --> 01:52:06,610 is it Facebook how does someone get 2612 01:52:10,860 --> 01:52:09,820 ahold of you right yeah so unfortunately 2613 01:52:13,440 --> 01:52:10,870 my book isn't know yet it's actually 2614 01:52:14,640 --> 01:52:13,450 it's I'm finishing the last chapter so 2615 01:52:16,610 --> 01:52:14,650 if you're my publisher and you're 2616 01:52:19,350 --> 01:52:16,620 listening to me it's almost done buddy 2617 01:52:21,090 --> 01:52:19,360 so I've got one more chapter to write 2618 01:52:22,380 --> 01:52:21,100 it's almost done actually and then it's 2619 01:52:24,210 --> 01:52:22,390 gonna get sent straight to my publisher 2620 01:52:27,000 --> 01:52:24,220 hopefully early this summer and 2621 01:52:29,670 --> 01:52:27,010 hopefully we'll have it out soon so I 2622 01:52:31,530 --> 01:52:29,680 will definitely keep you posted and if 2623 01:52:34,220 --> 01:52:31,540 you want to read any of my work you can 2624 01:52:37,950 --> 01:52:34,230 visit my website my blog it's at 2625 01:52:41,280 --> 01:52:37,960 www.afcea.org ages Google if you just 2626 01:52:43,910 --> 01:52:41,290 google Terra obscure a blog it'll pop up 2627 01:52:47,490 --> 01:52:43,920 I'm also on Facebook Twitter Instagram 2628 01:52:51,300 --> 01:52:47,500 send me a message I would be happy to to 2629 01:52:54,420 --> 01:52:51,310 talk to you and and yeah I I'm always 2630 01:52:56,850 --> 01:52:54,430 welcoming and I'm willing to listen to 2631 01:52:59,130 --> 01:52:56,860 anyone's story because I gotta be honest 2632 01:53:03,000 --> 01:52:59,140 that's I think what really ufology is is 2633 01:53:04,950 --> 01:53:03,010 it's it's just collecting stories and 2634 01:53:05,970 --> 01:53:04,960 I'm also sorry yeah I'm also a 2635 01:53:07,710 --> 01:53:05,980 mysterious universe so if you go to 2636 01:53:09,960 --> 01:53:07,720 mysterious universe org I contribute to 2637 01:53:13,230 --> 01:53:09,970 them as well oh okay oh wow that's uh 2638 01:53:14,760 --> 01:53:13,240 yeah that's quite a very active site so 2639 01:53:19,680 --> 01:53:14,770 do you have a working title for this 2640 01:53:22,020 --> 01:53:19,690 book I you know what I I do but my 2641 01:53:26,190 --> 01:53:22,030 publisher is I can he I can sense him 2642 01:53:28,380 --> 01:53:26,200 right now he's he's like a my yeah just 2643 01:53:29,520 --> 01:53:28,390 no no he likes it it's just he wouldn't 2644 01:53:32,020 --> 01:53:29,530 want me to she's like you know I just 2645 01:53:35,020 --> 01:53:32,030 don't talk about it I think yeah 2646 01:53:40,030 --> 01:53:35,030 it's yeah so I do working title is the 2647 01:53:42,130 --> 01:53:40,040 working title okay alright well we still 2648 01:53:44,320 --> 01:53:42,140 have a minute left we don't have time to 2649 01:53:46,810 --> 01:53:44,330 take calls in you know there were some 2650 01:53:48,910 --> 01:53:46,820 topics that I thought we could get into 2651 01:53:50,320 --> 01:53:48,920 but we weren't able to one of them was a 2652 01:53:51,820 --> 01:53:50,330 I wanted to talk a little bit about 2653 01:53:54,670 --> 01:53:51,830 MUFON because I know you did some 2654 01:53:57,310 --> 01:53:54,680 writing about that but it looks like we 2655 01:53:59,290 --> 01:53:57,320 got about a minute left so I think I 2656 01:54:02,380 --> 01:53:59,300 think that's gonna be it for the show 2657 01:54:05,350 --> 01:54:02,390 tonight and I want to thank everyone 2658 01:54:09,570 --> 01:54:05,360 over there and kgr a radio and thank you 2659 01:54:11,890 --> 01:54:09,580 very much MJ and let's stay in touch 2660 01:54:14,890 --> 01:54:11,900 yeah I love you thank you very much for 2661 01:54:15,910 --> 01:54:14,900 having me on I know that there's some 2662 01:54:18,070 --> 01:54:15,920 issues right now between our two 2663 01:54:20,350 --> 01:54:18,080 countries and that's why well I'll make 2664 01:54:23,260 --> 01:54:20,360 sure there's no tariffs on this on this 2665 01:54:26,290 --> 01:54:23,270 conversation that's good I love I love 2666 01:54:28,480 --> 01:54:26,300 our neighbors to the north so yeah I 2667 01:54:30,580 --> 01:54:28,490 hope we can work all that stuff out oh 2668 01:54:32,380 --> 01:54:30,590 yeah you know we're up here we love you 2669 01:54:34,330 --> 01:54:32,390 guys we love you guys Dory it's all good 2670 01:54:37,210 --> 01:54:34,340 yeah it looks like easy we're crazy all 2671 01:54:40,510 --> 01:54:37,220 right all right thanks so much thanks 2672 01:54:42,880 --> 01:54:40,520 Martin all right take care bye bye 2673 01:54:46,000 --> 01:54:42,890 all right everyone so we are coming back 2674 01:54:49,900 --> 01:54:46,010 next week and we should be in studio 2675 01:54:52,960 --> 01:54:49,910 with Chris O'Brien and it should be a 2676 01:54:56,620 --> 01:54:52,970 lot of fun and we will have Skype up to 2677 01:54:59,530 --> 01:54:56,630 take calls on that as well so so you can 2678 01:55:02,020 --> 01:54:59,540 you can send us some questions I think 2679 01:55:04,570 --> 01:55:02,030 I'm probably going to do the show in a 2680 01:55:05,680 --> 01:55:04,580 library or something on video with us 2681 01:55:07,930 --> 01:55:05,690 sitting there we'll try to figure 2682 01:55:09,160 --> 01:55:07,940 something out here anyway I want to 2683 01:55:12,520 --> 01:55:09,170 thank people that helped out with the 2684 01:55:16,300 --> 01:55:12,530 show first of all Jordan Bonaparte for 2685 01:55:18,100 --> 01:55:16,310 helping us with the UFO updates 2686 01:55:22,360 --> 01:55:18,110 I want to thank Peggy for running the 2687 01:55:24,280 --> 01:55:22,370 Facebook page also Evan for doing the 2688 01:55:26,110 --> 01:55:24,290 work in the background and remember you 2689 01:55:28,990 --> 01:55:26,120 can like us on Facebook don't forget to 2690 01:55:31,540 --> 01:55:29,000 do that check out podcast UFO comm I 2691 01:55:34,930 --> 01:55:31,550 want to thank race over at kgr a radio 2692 01:55:37,270 --> 01:55:34,940 and that is going to be at Chris O'Brien